Stanley Krippner Interview pt. 2 - June 24, 2010

Since the website is originated in Russia even though it is becoming international and has its English version that is going online for Russians it is very important to hear what can be a contribution from the Russian people, from the Russian scientists, from the Russian members of the transpersonal movement to the world and global dialogue at large? True. Actually, I think that Russia has a great deal to contribute because Russia is a very old country— much older than the United States and Russia also has a long tradition of folklore and folk mythology and in folk mythology there is a great deal of emphasis upon altered states of consciousness about speaking animals and about words to communicate to human beings and also you have a very rich tradition of shamanism in Russia Not only in Siberia, in another parts of Russia as well And this long tradition of shamanism was destroyed not only by the Communist but by the Buddhists in Siberia and by the Christians in Siberia Many people don't realize this but shamans were persecuted by very reactionary groups of both Christians and Buddhists And then when the Communists came to power that wiped out shamanism almost completely Many shamans were killed and they took their drums—the surviving ones— and buried them under ground, put the drums to sleep And sometimes they did some shamanic ceremonies but only in private, only in secret Now, the irony is that the secret police thought maybe the shamans can give us some weapons by which we can win the Cold War and so they let some of the shamans re-emerge and they used them for their own purposes What they did was to try to get the shamans to confuse the minds of the leaders of the United States Frankly, I think they succeeded because during much of the Cold War the decisions made by the United States government were TERRIBLE decisions! They prolonged the Cold War, they got the United States into a useless, hopeless war in Vietnam, for example So, I think maybe the shamans succeeded Well, with the demise of the Soviet Union finally shamanism came to life again in Siberia the drums were dug up maybe not by the people who hid them because they were dead but by their children, by their grandchildren And I have met many of the Shamans from Siberia and they're wonderful people They have great stories to tell; and they are masters of altered states of consciousness And I think that this is a tradition that can be learned a great deal from Also, they know about herbs, they know about mushrooms, they know about special teas that can produce an altered consciousness They know about how drums can be used to alter consciousness This is a very very rich tradition that not only Russian scientists but scientists of the world and around the world can learn a great deal from it But it's not only the Siberian shamans As you know, in St. Petersburg the ketamine studies are now almost three decades old this is the longest study by any group in either Russia or the former Soviet Union and there's a great deal to learn about ketamine and altered states and people like Dimitry Spivak and his associates have made many presentations, written articles about ketamine Really better research than has been done any place in the world on altered states of consciousness Ketamine is legal in the United States so I'm hoping that more research can be done in the United States with ketamine But then there are other traditions In some parts of the Eastern part of Russia there are traditions that go back into yoga and there are traditions in some of the... some of the folk traditions in terms of the way that people use music to alter consciousness and sing special songs when people are sick So, really, every place you look in Russia today you can find a resource for studying altered states of consciousness either old or new So, as a representative of the American academia do you think that Russian researchers can make a contribution to development of the psychedelic studies, of altered states of consciousness studies in the United States and the world Well, Russia has already made contributions—absolutely— and these contributions are in the research literature And I think that Russia could make more contributions if the United States had less restrictive laws and more research money to study, for example, ketamine and repeat the work that's been done in Russia with ketamine Also, much more work could be done in the United States by anthropologists who want to study shamanism Already the Foundation for Shamanic Studies in the United States has made several good studies of Siberia shamans and this has been done under the work of the anthropologist Michael Harner who has paid great honor and great respect to Siberian shamans also shamans in Tyva and other parts of the Russian nation So there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that Russia could be a legal player in the game of altered states of consciousness