Stanley Krippner Interview pt. 2 - June 24, 2010
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Since the website is originated in Russia
even though it is becoming international
and has its English version
that is going online
for Russians it is very important to hear
what can be a contribution
from the Russian people,
from the Russian scientists,
from the Russian members of the transpersonal movement
to the world and global dialogue at large?
True. Actually, I think that Russia has a great deal
to contribute
because Russia is a very old country— much older than the United States
and Russia also has a long tradition of folklore
and folk mythology
and in folk mythology there is a great deal of emphasis
upon altered states of consciousness
about speaking animals
and about words to communicate to human beings
and also you have a very rich tradition of shamanism in Russia
Not only in Siberia, in another parts of Russia as well
And this long tradition of shamanism
was destroyed not only by the Communist
but by the Buddhists in Siberia
and by the Christians in Siberia
Many people don't realize this
but shamans were persecuted
by very reactionary groups of both Christians and Buddhists
And then when the Communists came to power
that wiped out
shamanism almost completely
Many shamans were killed
and they took their drums—the surviving ones—
and buried them under ground, put the drums to sleep
And sometimes they did some shamanic ceremonies
but only in private, only in secret
Now, the irony is
that the secret police thought
maybe the shamans can give us some weapons
by which we can win the Cold War
and so they let some of the shamans
re-emerge
and they used them for their own purposes
What they did was to try to get the shamans
to confuse the minds of the leaders of the United States
Frankly, I think they succeeded
because during much of the Cold War
the decisions made by the United States government
were TERRIBLE decisions!
They prolonged the Cold War,
they got the United States into a useless, hopeless war in Vietnam, for example
So, I think maybe the shamans succeeded
Well, with the demise of the Soviet Union
finally shamanism came to life again in Siberia
the drums were dug up
maybe not by the people who hid them
because they were dead
but by their children, by their grandchildren
And I have met many of the Shamans from Siberia
and they're wonderful people
They have great stories to tell; and they are masters of altered states of consciousness
And I think that this is a tradition
that can be learned a great deal from
Also, they know about herbs,
they know about mushrooms,
they know about special teas that can produce an altered consciousness
They know about how drums can be used to alter consciousness
This is a very very rich tradition
that not only Russian scientists
but scientists of the world and around the world
can learn a great deal from it
But it's not only the Siberian shamans
As you know, in St. Petersburg
the ketamine studies
are now almost three decades old
this is the longest study
by any group in either Russia or the former Soviet Union
and there's a great deal to learn
about ketamine and altered states
and people like Dimitry Spivak and his associates
have made many presentations,
written articles about ketamine
Really better research than has been done
any place in the world on altered states of consciousness
Ketamine is legal in the United States
so I'm hoping that more research can be done in the United States with ketamine
But then there are other traditions
In some parts of the Eastern part of Russia
there are traditions that go back into yoga
and there are traditions
in some of the...
some of the folk traditions
in terms of the way that people use
music to alter consciousness
and sing special songs when people are sick
So, really, every place you look in Russia today
you can find a resource for studying altered states of consciousness
either old or new
So, as a representative of the American academia
do you think that Russian researchers can make a contribution to development
of the psychedelic studies,
of altered states of consciousness studies
in the United States and the world
Well, Russia has already made contributions—absolutely—
and these contributions are in the research literature
And I think that Russia could make more contributions
if the United States had less restrictive laws
and more research money
to study, for example, ketamine
and repeat the work that's been done in Russia with ketamine
Also, much more work could be done in the United States
by anthropologists who want to study shamanism
Already the Foundation for Shamanic Studies in the United States
has made several good studies of Siberia shamans
and this has been done under the work of the anthropologist Michael Harner
who has paid great honor and great respect to Siberian shamans
also shamans in Tyva and other parts of the Russian nation
So there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever
that Russia could be a legal player in the game of altered states of consciousness