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[INAUDIBLE] All right, here we go. OK, action. Action. Welcome to our episode, our "Puppy Culture Unplugged" episode on the show stack. Today we're going to have Daphne demonstrating the adult show stack. Then we have a nine-month-old puppy here to show you what a work in progress looks like. And then we have four six-week-old puppies that we have started in varying amounts so that you can see the progression of how you train tiny baby puppies to do the show stack. So I'm going to jump right in and demonstrate with Daphne the elements of a show stack. So Mark, I'm going to walk down here onto the grass and show this. I think it shows best down here. So the dog should walk in, stand-- set herself up. Now, see, she's a little off. So step. Good girl. No, don't sit. Step. Thatta girl. So Daphne is a grand champion. She's six years old. She's actually the star of "Puppy Culture." She's had two litters. But she's coming out to show you how this is done today. Now, I want you to notice how I'm able to position her head up and down and side to side-- good. Stay. So that gives you a different look, depending on the dog and what you need to show or want to show on the dog. Now, stay. I want to also show you that if I have to be right up close to her like this, it does not give as nice an outline for the dog as if I can get further away. Stay. And position her head down. OK, good girl. Now you notice that I have a verbal release on her? That's really important, because if I have to use my hand to release her, or if I have a motion release on the dog, I won't be able to reposition her head the way that I was and have her stand still. The further away you can get from the dog, the more beautiful it's going to look. It's going to give a more graceful outline to the dog. Now, that's just a quick overview of a completely finished adult dog grand champion show stack. Now, good girl. Today, we're just-- you can go ahead, Kathy. Today we're just going to work on the very first element with our baby puppies, which is just to get them to stand still. I think a lot of the problem that people have working with puppies is that they try and get too much at once. The thing that I showed you with Daphne is a separate element that we train separately. Right, Daphne? And if you try and push too much at once with a puppy, you won't wind up getting that great show attitude. So it's exquisitely difficult for people to kind of let go and just train one thing at once, even if they see other things falling apart. And we're going to talk more about that later. But first, I just want to show you. We're going to be showing you what a nine-month-old bull terrier looks like. This dog we actually had to park the car far away, because he was so excited he was barking a lot. Hey G, will you take her away for me? So he'll be coming out in a minute. I think I hear him coming now. Oh, yeah, I hear it. She can go away. I'm going to get another cookie. Come on, Daph. So Kathy Russo was nice enough to come out and bring Ali to work with us. Hi, Ali. Come on out, Ali. Yeah, we'll put the collar on out here, Kathy, just bring him out. Hey, buddy. Hi, how are you, yeah. I know it's fantastic. You know what? I'll start him on this collar just because I don't totally trust him. OK. So this, you know, you may be thinking, well, oh, my gosh. What's wrong with this dog? Why isn't she trying to-- normal, normal bull terrier-- totally trained. You just a got a puppy group too yesterday, right? So normal dog-- this is just how they are. Now, we don't want to dampen this enthusiasm, because this will all turn into great show stuff for us. So I'm just going to jump right in there and start shaking him. I don't care about anything except that I get stillness. Come here, buddy. It's here. It's here. I don't care about anything. I don't care whether he's stacked well. I don't care about that I don't have the right collar on. I don't care that he's jumping. I don't even care if he sits. I just want to get still. [CLICK] Good boy. You got to kind of just [CLICK] roll with the punches with these dogs. Come here. Now, I know a lot of people are looking at this particularly. My mic is not working? OK. Hold on a second. Gina is going to have to help us. All right, buddy. OK, I'm just going to keep working with him, because it's like a shark. I have to keep swimming. Come here. Good boy. [CLICK] Good boy. Good boy. [CLICK] Come here. And I'll let you work with him. Come here, buddy. Stand. [CLICK] Good boy. Good boy. [CLICK] Good boy, nicely done. Good job! Now you're getting it. [CLICK] Yes, good boy. So you can tell. She's done a lot of training with him. It's just there's a lot of enthusiasm here. And we don't want to-- we don't want to-- [CLICK] we don't want to stop any of that. We love that enthusiasm. [CLICK] Nicely done, Ali. Good boy. Kathy would you bring me that bin with the food? Come here. So all I'm doing is I I'm kind of baiting him, [CLICK] taking my hand away for a second. And if he doesn't move, I'm clicking that. Just stillness. That's all I want is stillness. And now it's working down. Again, [CLICK] people will take their dog to a handling class, a young dog, and they'll just try and correct the dog and stop them from jumping, and I understand that you can't have him jumping on an all-breed judge in the ring. But train it. Just train the behavior. Don't try and suppress what he's doing, because you'll just kill all the dog show enthusiasm. Come here. Come here. Good boy. Stand. [CLICK] Yes, that's awfully good. Yes, I know. You're a good dog. And you can-- I mean, you can tell the Cathy's put in some work with this dog. He's a teenager, and he's crazy. Come here. OK. Ali. Come here, buddy. You ready? [CLICK] Nicely done. Now, I realize the dog is too stretched out. You know, he's not giving us a perfect show stack. But again, all I want is just to get him to hold still. Come here, buddy. And I think he's actually just about done. I think that was a good lesson for him. So you can go ahead and take him back. Got the food? I'll take the food. You got him, sweetie? Yeah. OK. So if we have time, we're going to bring out Ali again at the end. So now we're going to bring out a puppy. Now, the first puppy that I bring out is going to be one that we haven't worked with. So you can see how they start. So this is a six-week old puppy. They just turned six weeks yesterday morning. This is Sparky. This is Sparky. I'm going to take a couple of pieces of food. Hey, buddy, how you doing? Are you sleeping? He says, I'm kind of sleeping. OK, so I know he's [INAUDIBLE]. So it's, oh, I know Sparky Sparky. So Sparky-- oh, OK, buddy. Sparky really hasn't done this at all before. I think he had maybe one turn. We took some pictures the other day. So again, I'm going to show you how I get him started. Now, I work with larger pieces of bait. This is smoked brisket. It's really delicious. And this is a piece of cheese. I prefer to work with larger pieces of bait and just break it off. I'm not a fan of bait bags. So we have somebody coming in. So all right-- [CLICK] so what I'm doing is I'm actually using the bait [CLICK] to let him nibble on it a little bit and then [CLICK] pulling it away really fast and clicking him-- good boy-- [CLICK] as soon as he doesn't move. Now, [CLICK] the reason I'm doing this is that-- let me just do this [CLICK]. Good boy. I just want to get stillness. So six-week old puppies basically can't see very much, particularly not motion. So if you let them nibble and then just pull it away, [CLICK] you're likely to get stillness, because they don't know where the food went. They're not going to chase after it when you whipped it up. So you let him nibble, [CLICK] pull it away, and you'll get that stillness that-- you capture that behavior that you can click. I know. I know he's going to take the whole thing. He's like, I'll just take the whole thing. Don't mind me. I'll just take the whole thing. All right, there you go. All right, here. Good boy. Nice! Again, ow! OK, he likes that roast beef. [CLICK] Good boy. I don't care what else he's doing as long as he's not moving. [CLICK] Good boy. That's it. Good boy. How's it going, Gina? Can they hear me OK? Good. [CLICK] Good boy! [CLICK] Good boy. There's a question. What about his foot? Is it a big deal that he's moving his foot-- like when you take it away or feeding him? No. [CLICK] Basically, as long as he's basically standing still, if he's shifting a tiny bit at first, you're going to see the progression. At first, I'll take anything that's basically being still. You know, if he shifts a tiny bit, [CLICK] yes, good boy. That's good. What's the matter? You'll have to repeat my questions. [INAUDIBLE] OK OK. So the question was, is it a big deal that he moves? He moved one of his feet a little bit when I took away the bait, and I still clicked. But again, you have to shape the behavior down. So yeah, I mean, ideally, he would be stuck still. But if he's basically not moving or not moving much, I'm going to take that at first. But now we're going to get to see the next puppy. Let's do-- let's do Luigi. Someone asked about bait. Yeah. Come here. "Could Jane talk more about bait? What size pieces?" Sure. So with these puppies-- let me just say the next puppy that comes out is going to be Luigi. So now you're going to get to see the progression of a puppy that's had a couple more sessions. And you're going to get to see how we, as we say, raise the criteria from not just any kind of standstill to a good solid standstill. Again, I'm not going to be worrying about position or anything like that yet. So as far as bait goes, this is some cheddar cheese that I cut into chunks. I don't know if you can zero in on that and see that size. This is about the size that I like to work with. This is some brisket that I smoked. It's awful big for a little puppy. Well, I'm just letting them nibble a tiny piece. So I let them nibble a tiny piece. Now, I want you also to notice that when I was working with Sparky, I held the food in my right hand, and I baited him this way. I was basically luring him into it. With these puppies, that I've already worked with, I'm going to be putting the food in my left hand out of sight. And I'm going to start to give them my cue finger, which is this. OK? So I've already worked with them a number of times with baiting them off of my right hand. Then I started giving them the cue with the food still in my right hand. So now, this next puppy we've done those two steps. And we're going to move the food into the left hand, because we actually want to-- we want it to be clean cue. We don't want them to be following food. We want them to be following our hand. OK, you can put them down for me. Take this. Come here, buddy. This is Luigi Meatballs. Good boy! And you can see he has a little bit more of an idea about standing still. Come here. [CLICK] Good boy. I know you're good boy. Come here. Come here. It's here. It's here. [CLICK] Oh, nicely done. That's a good boy. He's got a little foot movement. But that's OK. [CLICK] Oh, good boy! You're doing really well. He's like I got this standing still stuff really down good. Here. Stand this way so that people can see you, cutie boy. Come here. Yeah, oops. Come here. Come here, Weej. You just need a lot of patience with little teeny tiny babies. Come here. Luigi. Good boy! [CLICK] That's very well done right there. That's it, buddy. That's a nice piece of brisket you got there. There is a big one. You OK? Good boy. [CLICK] Hey! Good boy. That's it. So you can start to see a little bit of the thoughtfulness of the puppy that he's-- [CLICK] yes. Yes! That he's beginning to understand that he really has to stand still. Good boy! Nicely done. Look at him wagging up at me. You're such a good little guy. You're such a good little guy. Come here. Come here. Let's do it again. You want to do it again. So come here. See. It's very difficult to get them to actually focus on anything because, again, their vision is not great. He's thinking, well, there's food on the ground. So especially for this puppy that's a little bit more advanced, I'd really like to get him to start following my finger. Come here. Come here. Are you just thinking that you're just good. Did you have to pee pee maybe? You look like somebody that might have to pee pee. [CLICK] Good boy! Yes? How long between sessions do you raise the criteria? So the last puppy you had hadn't done that and was doing whatever [INAUDIBLE].. This next puppy, [INAUDIBLE]. How do you know when the criteria is OK to raise? How many of general rules do [INAUDIBLE] before you [INAUDIBLE] these criteria? Well, that is just a great question. And it is the $20,000 question. What you're really looking for is what I call the penny drop or the light bulb, which probably Gene Donaldson calls the CER, Conditioned Emotional Response. When the puppy gives you that look like, I know I've got it. So let me just show you with this puppy. Come here. So that looks like that puppy knows. Am I correct? Watch how when I put my finger up. Now, see now, he's not doing it there, but there. [CLICK] That looks to me like, yeah, I know. That finger up means I get fed. When I can get that consistently-- I'd say when I would be 80% to 90% sure that I'm going to get that. And usually, in an adult dog, if I get it three to five times is enough with a baby puppy, I would probably want more than that-- I can now raise the criteria. In a baby puppy, I would say I would want to see-- I wouldn't probably raise him in this session, because I'm just happy to see this. [CLICK] But I would definitely the next time I come out start asking him for a little bit more. Now that I've got this-- [CLICK] good boy. Next time, I might start working on him a little bit more on body position and how he's stacking-- duration of stacking. But again, the primary goal with these puppies is just stillness and to get that understanding, that CER and the stillness, that, oh, yeah, if I'm still, I get paid. Let's have another there, Gina. It's a great question, and it's always a question of when to move the story forward-- how quickly to do it. And it's also going to depend per puppy. Like some puppies are just going to be really fast. And you might even raise it within one session. An adult dog certainly I will raise it within one session. But some puppies are just not as quick as others. And particularly at this age, what you're fighting against a lot of times is that they don't yet have a food drive. A lot of breeds, a lot of puppies, even these puppies, did not have a very big food drive, as young as other litters that I've had. So that's a challenge. So these-- like Luigi, we started him at five weeks old, which is a luxury, because not all puppies are going to be-- you're going to be able to start them at five weeks old, because they don't have the food drive. Oh, here's Imogene. This one of our star performers here. Come here, darling. Yeah, thanks. So Imogene-- come here, sweetheart. Are you ready, girlie? OK, I'm not a big fan of bait bags. It's just me. I just feel like it's like way too big. First of all, they're just bulky. So here. Come here. Im. Im. Hi. So she's a little looking around and worried-- no big deal. [CLICK] There you go. OK, OK, there it is. [CLICK] Yes, that's a good girl. That's a good girl. The other tip I'll give you-- [CLICK] wow! Good girlie. Good girlie. The other tip I'll give you is a lot of times if you can click them while they're still chewing, you're more likely to catch a little stillness. Come here. I don't know what dirty thing you have on your foot. But you're a puppy. That's what you guys do. Wow, [CLICK] Imogene, wow! So I've worked with her before. And I'm getting a pretty good CER on the stillness. So come here. Come here. Here it is, baby. Here it is. I know. You saw that food, and that just blew your mind. She's like, but no, the food is there. [CLICK] Good girl. So now, I might start working a little bit more with her-- good girl. I would work a little more on duration. I'm going to ask for just-- I'm going to count to one before I click, because I want to get a little bit more time on that stillness. Come here. Come here. Come here. I know there's food in that hand. But it's here. This is where your payoff is. Come here. This is very [INAUDIBLE]. And by the way, this is a great core concept for them, that look away from the cookie to get the cookie. Even though she knows it's in this hand, but she has to look this way to get it. That just pay such huge dividends with dogs when it comes to attention as they get older. Come on, sweetheart. Come on. You Come here. Come here. OK? [CLICK] Good girl. That was very nicely done. Now, I want you-- she says, it's no big deal. I'll just help her stand up. Come here. Oooh, don't go off the edge there. Come here. Here. [CLICK] Good girl! That's really nicely done. This is so fun. Come here. Come here. And I'm only resetting her so you can see her. I don't care about whether she's square or not. [CLICK] Good girl. And her head is low. I don't care. Again, I can fix all that later if I have the stillness. [CLICK] I don't care that the one foot is up. She kind of sat down on me a little bit there. I just want to get a little more duration on it. [CLICK] Oh, you are such a clever girl and a pretty girl too. It's kind of warm out here in the sun. [INAUDIBLE] [CLICK] Good girl. So I'm going to be able to count to about two in this session. One, yeah, she sees that you're talking to me. I can't talk. You guys are going to have to count at home. [CLICK] Good girl. That was excellent for you, Imogene. And then oh, this is thing is you also have to give them some loving a the end sometimes. I was in a hurry, so I didn't do it with the other ones. But this is a really important part, and I'm not actually just saying that. It is really important, because puppies this age, generally-- well, she says the cheese is awfully nice-- are very socially motivated. It's probably a biological programming that social approval is extremely important to puppies at this age. And it makes sense, because they need the approval of the pack. And they need us to protect them still. So you know, even though a bull terrier at nine months old is probably not going to work for love as much as they might love you means a lot to a puppy this age to get to play. You got my next puppy. My next victim? Who's this, Sassy? Mrs. Sassy bee? So then we've done all four. Is that right? OK. So Mrs. Sassy bee. Hi, Mrs. Sassy bee. You can take this one away. Yeah, hi. Do you want to just-- and I just I just give them a little sampling just so they know, oh, yeah, there's food here. Oh, come here. Come here, Sassy bee. Come on. Good girl. Come here. Sassy also has had a couple turns. So-- come on, baby. You just have to be patient with them. They'll get it. She's like I smell food on the floor though. [CLICK] Good girl. That's very well done. That's a nice piece of brisket right there. [CLICK] All right. I'm looking at feet, by the way, not heads. So even though she dropped her head-- [CLICK] even though she dropped her head there, that's OK. The head up is another level that I'll start with on this puppy. [CLICK] But as long as the feet aren't moving, I'm happy. Come here. Oh, how is that? Delicious? Come here. Come here. Come here. OK, squirrel. This is the attention of a six-week old puppy. [CLICK] Good girl. Nicely done. Wow! You guys-- let's get that bee out of here. You guys are just brilliant. So let's just try this on. So now I'm just going to move that. [CLICK] So she's got a little more-- she's a little more advanced than Imogene was. And now, I'm going to start setting her feet. [CLICK] She already has done the duration part that I was doing with the previous puppy. So now I'm going to raise the criteria so she doesn't go off that ledge. And now, I'm going to raise the criteria by starting to move her feet. I'm going to set her up by hand. Come here. And I'll talk about that in a minute. Come here. Come here. Come on. So the reason we use stuff that we'll eat is that you can hold it in your mouth. Like that. [CLICK] Very well done. I know. That was very well done. Very well done. [CLICK] Good girl! So even though I'm teaching the free stack now, the reason why-- and I don't hand stack my adult dogs ever. I shouldn't say ever-- generally, I don't hand stack my adult dogs. You saw the nine-month-old puppy, OK? When you're showing puppies, a lot of times you're going to have to fall back to hand stacking them. You may have a beautiful free stack trained at home. You're going to have to fall back to hand stacking them. So even though my goal with these puppies is that they should have a gorgeous free stack, I know chances are when they're six months old if I show them at six months old, I'm going to have to get down on my hands and knees and hand stack them. So I'm going to get them used to having their feet placed now. [CLICK] Good girl. That's well-done. You know, and I always say-- [CLICK] good girl. The best preparation for a performance career in my opinion-- show ring-- its attention as a behavior is learning to ignore distractions, have focus, and it's simple. It's the smallest iteration of attention. It's really good practice, I think. Jane, you have some questions. I'm almost done with this puppy. What? I'm almost done with this puppy. [CLICK] Good. Good. And I'm starting with her back feet. You can start with her front feet. She's done. You want to ask me the questions? I'll just play with her a little bit later. OK, so the question is, do I train the entire litter to stack at the same time? Or do I take the most advanced puppies and wait for the others to catch up? And the answer is I've got nine puppies. It's extraordinarily difficult to train them all. But practically speaking, I'm going to give them all one lesson. I did give them all one lesson. And then I will take the more advanced ones or the ones that I think-- in this case, we took the more advanced ones, because we wanted to show you how it's going to go. But in reality, I would take my show prospects and just really work with them, just for time constraints. There's just a limit, if you have nine puppies and you're going through all the protocols, to how much extra training you can do. So for instance, if I know like last litter, I knew-- those of you who watched last time-- that Saki was going to be going to Ellen Griffin, who wanted to do tracking. So I did extra tracking protocols with them-- scent work protocols. For the puppies that I knew that I was going to be keeping and showing or going to show homes, I did extra show stacking. I mean, by six weeks, you probably have some idea which ones are going to go to-- be. Jane we have another question for you. Sassy bee. Yes? "Do you only move one foot at a time too? Or can you do two feet and then click? Or should you stick with one foot at a time? Or perhaps start with one foot and graduate to two, and three, and four at one time?" Yeah, that's exactly right. So again, the rule being that you can only shape one thing at a time. So you-- once you have stillness, and once you have a little duration on the stillness, then you just go to be being able to move one foot. Then when you can move one foot, you move one foot and then two feet. And then once you have that, you do three feet. And once you have that, you do four feet. But the overriding principle is that you can only shape one thing at a time. And you want to get a CER or that light bulb going off. Yes, we can go get our Ali. We're going to show you Ali again. You want to get that CER or that light bulb going off at every level before you move on to the next level. Being able to break it down and fully train each level is really crucial. And by the way, they're not machines. So even though in your mind it's going to be like today, I did that one back foot. Now tomorrow I'm going to do two back feet. Sometimes the puppy comes out, and they have other plans. The learning is not like this. It's like this. So you have to just be alert to where you are and how the puppy is reacting. And sometimes, you might even have to fall back a little. Mrs. Sassy. That's why she's Sassy. Yeah. [INAUDIBLE] She's Sassy. One question before I take her in? Yeah. "Could you summarize and go over the general steps that you need to achieve before moving on to the next? Example, the first step is anything that's new-- second would be duration, et cetera." Well, what I'm giving you is a protocol, OK? So what I did was no matter what, anything that's holding still is your first step. Sassy bee-- I just wanted to do this, because she [INAUDIBLE].. Mrs. Sassy bee. Mhm. Come here, Sassy bee. [INAUDIBLE] OK, and take her in before the other dog gets here. So I definitely think that your first step has to be stillness. Oh, and here's Ali. You hear him coming? And then I would say the second step should be duration. After that-- and I'm-- sorry, I'm going to interrupt myself here, because duration with the puppy looking at your finger. So the first is any stillness. The second is that the puppy actually raises his head and looks at your finger, which you'll be getting by the time you get duration. Then it's duration. Those three are, I would say, those would be your first three steps. But after that, you can really mix it up however it makes sense to you. I do touching the feet. But you could do moving in front of the puppy. Or you could do any number of things. But for me, those would be the steps that I use to get it is I do any stillness, look at your finger, duration, and then moving one foot, two foot, three foot, four foot. That's how I do it. But again, it's more of an art than a science in that you could mix it up however makes sense to you. All right, here comes Ali again. So how do you move from the side to the front? Well, again, that would be your next-- you know, once you have all those criterion that I talked about, then I would move to the front. That would be my next-- criter-- that would be my next criterion that I would add. But again, there's no there's no saying that you wouldn't move to the front first before you say touch the feet. I just find this works for me, as I would move to the front after I touched the feet. But you're going to see that coming on in-- like-- other episodes as we move forward. OK, come on out, Ali. Let's see what we got. We're going to move down onto the grass with Ali. Hi, bud. We might even get a show lead on him this time. Hi, sweetheart, yes, yes, yes. You brought the showie? I did. Let me grab. Yeah, I'll hold onto him. I got him. Hi. Hi, sweetie. Yeah, hi. [INAUDIBLE] Yeah, yeah. All right, Ali. [CLICK] Good boy. Here. Do you-- oh, he smells the puppies. Come here, Al. Now he smells the puppies. He's all excited. Now, listen, we use choke collars to show our dogs. And it's not because we choke the dogs. It's just because, as you'll see in coming episodes, it allows us to keep the leash tucked up under their chin so it will disappear and not mar the picture for the judge. But it's not because we correct them, or I don't correct them. Some people do. But it has nothing to do with that. It has just to do with presentation, not with training. All right, come here, buddy. Come here. All right, yes, I have the cookies. OK, you can take that off. Yeah, this is a bull terrier. It takes two people to wrangle one dog. It's a beautiful dog by the way, everybody. All right, yeah, oh. yeah. [INAUDIBLE] Success, OK. Come here, Ali. Yeah, yeah. Who's your mama? Come here. I got some food for you. All, good boy. Good boy. Now, OK, so this dog is actually more distracted, because the puppies have been out here. So now he smells the other dogs. So this is what I'm talking about where when you have a young dog, you may have trained a gorgeous free stack. But at the end of the day-- come here-- you may wind up having to just get down on your hands and knees and stack the dog. Yeah, see, he's not taking this food now. Good boy. Yeah. Yeah. Good boy. [CLICK] Nicely done. Do you like that? Come here. Yes, good boy. [CLICK] Good boy. [CLICK] See, so now I'm just falling back to sitting right next to the dog. Like I thought, oh, you know, I might be able to show you guys a really nice free stack. [CLICK] [CLICK] But I'm going to do what it takes to get something out of this dog. I actually don't have to hand stack him. [CLICK] But I'm going to have to get down right next to him, because the puppies were just terribly distracting. Now maybe I can move in front. OK, see that? So I'm able to sneak in front of him now. [CLICK] Now, again, I'm not going to worry about the fact that maybe he's not stacked up exactly the way I'd like. OK, buddy, can I have another piece of bait? Give him a little break there. Again, yes. What's that? Do you have time for a question? Sure. OK, is there anything different that you would do if you were starting with slightly older puppies since they can see much better than a six-month [INAUDIBLE]?? Yeah, absolutely, and that's what I'm doing right here-- come on, buddy, come here-- is I'm actually just-- [CLICK] I'm actually just-- [CLICK] I'm able to keep his head up. So I'm moving up a little slower so that-- [CLICK] good boy. With the puppy, I just whip it right out of their vision. [CLICK] With him, I can just move it a little bit slowly out of the way, and he'll be able to see it. [CLICK] Good boy. With the puppy, I'm actually just trying to kind of surprise them. So they're like startled, and they stand there. With him, I'm actually going to see if I can just pull it up slow enough that he doesn't move forward. But yet, come here, sweetheart, slow enough. See, he's going to move slowly. Good boy. And you know, I realize that all this back here is not what I want. I can pick that battle later. I got to be able to get in front of him. Come here. Now, Kathy's trained this dog so like at home, stand. [CLICK] At home, she's going to be able to do a lot more with him as far fixing his feet. Stand up, stand. Good boy. [CLICK] Good boy. Stay. Stay. [CLICK] Good boy. Good boy. That's much better. That's much better. Good boy. You know what? Let's bring out Daphne, because I want to show the leash handling again. Do you have another question for me Gina? "Is there anything different that you would do if you're starting with slightly older puppies since they can see much better than a six-week old?" Didn't I just answer that question? No. You got interrupted. Oh, OK, so somebody said, is there is there anything that I would do much different than with an older puppy, because they can see much better than a six-week old? And I think what they're talking about is when I talk about that a six-week old can't really see. So what I do is I stack them up to start with. And I let them nibble on the food. And then I just whip my hand out of the picture quickly. And because they can't really see where the food went, it almost stuns them for a second. And sometimes, you'll just get that second of stillness that you can click. You have to get the behavior. So it's a way of getting the behavior. You let the little tiny puppy chew. You whip your hand quickly out of the way, and they startle almost, or they're like, whoa, where's the food? And you can click that and get that stillness. With an adult dog, what I would do is-- I actually, not an adult, but an older puppy, I would let them nibble the food. And then I would more slowly take it away just a little bit and see if I can get a second of stillness out of that, because sometimes if you just slowly lift it, they'll, instead of jumping forward for it, they'll back off at just a little tiny bit. And you can click at that moment. So that would be the difference. You just don't have that trick of whipping it way out, because with Ali, if you did that, he'd probably just go follow it right up your arm that way. I just want to show you the leash handling-- talk to you a little bit about the-- how long do we have, Mark? 12: 48. Oh, so we have little bit of time. We can even do another round with the puppies. That's where I have a lead on my-- Oh, OK, so let's see, yeah, you got it right. I'll take some more cookies for her. So I want to show you why we use a choke collar on these dogs. Again, it's not to correct them. And I know that people do correct show dogs, which they're just not really any reason for that. Daph, come. Question. Somebody asked [INAUDIBLE] do not use your finger to get Ali to be still? Well, because Ali is not my dog, and I haven't trained him. So he doesn't know the finger cue. And that's a great question. It's important to note that I'm just-- he's really just a control dog. So you can see that they're crazy. They come out wild. And you just remain calm and shape them down. But he doesn't-- he hasn't my cues. He's Kathy's dog. And she's trained him. So that's why I didn't use the finger cue with him. Come here. But I can still work with him. Come here, Daph. So what I want to show you guys is-- come here, sweetheart. So the reason why we use the choke collar is because if it's on right-- come here. I am going to move right in so you can see it. Come here, Daph. Come here. No, no. I have the food. Hey mule, come. Daphne come. Come here. Come here. Bull terriers. So hold on. I want people to see the choke collar. So can you see the way-- can you zoom in on the way that this is. OK, so you see how this is on. I can put this loop right underneath here. Can you zoom in on that? And pull it right under her ears and just pull it tight enough not to be tight on her. Come on, Daph. But that I can keep it up there. And then, come here, Daphne. Then when I stack her up, and we're a little downhill, it will more or less disappear behind her neck. It does not cut into her neck or ruin the line of her neck. I don't know if they can see that there. Good girl. You know how pretty that is. Now, what you'll see a lot of times is people will allow the leash to fall like down here and then do this. And then you see that cuts the beautiful line of her neck. And we don't like that. We want that leash to disappear right behind there. So that's why we do it just behind the neck that way. Daph. OK. So even when I move her, again, when I move her, I'm going to have the leash short, but loose-- just tight enough to keep so that this doesn't fall off from behind her neck. Come here, girl. Come on, Daph. Dee. Dee. Come on, Daph. Good girl. Come on, Neens. Come on, Neenie. Woo, Daph! Good girl. Stand up. Good girl. So you see how that disappears. Now, another thing-- come on. Come here, darling, that you'll see some bull terrier people do is use an extremely long-- long collar that will fall across their shoulders. So it's basically achieving the same thing. It's just falling down here so that you don't cut into that beautiful long line of the neck. I prefer this light jewel color just behind the ears. That's a good girl. That's a good girlie. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. OK, let's do another quick round of the puppies. And then they're good. Any more questions? Ah, yeah, could you go over again the [INAUDIBLE]?? Well, you know, that's something that we're not working on yet with the puppies. OK, so somebody said can we go over the transition from side to front? And that's something that would be more likely the next thing that we would do in the next episode. So you probably won't see that here. Come here, Daphne. Go with-- [INAUDIBLE] You'll see it in the next episode. You'll see it next week. So that's something that-- because that's why we did two episodes of the show stacking, because we wanted to be able to show you the progression. But basically, once we have all these pieces that the puppy will hold still-- they understand the signal. They're holding still, and allowing us to set their feet, then we can start moving in front of them. Again though, the key thing here is that you have to take it one step at a time. And stillness is the first step. And it takes as long as it's going to take. Some puppies get it right away. These puppies-- it took them a good three sessions to really get the idea of holding still. I've had other puppies that were just a lot faster with it. This litter is not particularly precocious when it comes to training. They're not bad, but they're just not extra fast. He's a little sleepy. He's a little sleepy? Yeah. OK, so how are you doing, buddy? So now this time, the way that I'm going to advance the story for this puppy is instead of having the food in my left hand and baiting him, I'm going to put the food in my right hand and see if I can get him to look at my finger. Good boy. See that? So now we've moved on to step two, which is [CLICK] look at the finger and hold still. [CLICK] OK. OK. He's like, oh, I'm going to move toward that finger. [CLICK] Good boy! Good boy! Nicely done, Sparky. What are you marking with the finger? Stillness. And the head looking at my finger. So, OK, let's review. So the last time we did this, we allowed the puppy to chew, lifted [CLICK],, and held for anything still. Chew, lift, still. [CLICK] I don't care-- [CLICK] I don't care if he's looking at my finger. I don't care about head position. [CLICK] [CLICK] So now that we've got that, I'm going to raise the criteria by moving the food to my other hand and only using my fingers, so I'm not actually baiting him. I'm actually looking for him to look at my finger as I lift it. Good boy. That's very well done. Very well done. This is a huge concept for a tiny baby puppy, because we've got a little movement. Well, he caught me there. It's a huge concept for a tiny baby puppy, because they know the foods is in the other hand. So for them to look away from that hand and look at this finger and understand I do this-- [CLICK] good boy. Now, see, I'm having to get in there really quick and click, because he wants to-- he wants to lean forward into that finger. So [CLICK] I'm having to do it really fast. I'm not getting the duration on it. [CLICK] Good boy. Good boy. That's good. So I'm just about getting this from him. [CLICK] Good boy. I'm having a click really fast with this dog, because he's not 100% understanding the standing still part. So I have to get-- I'm having to get my click in really fast before he moves. He's kind of leaning forward into my hand. Here. [CLICK] Good. That's very good. [CLICK] Nice. See. I'm sneaking in there while he's still chewing, which helps. Come here. Come here. Come here. Trying to get a little bit of duration on it, a little bit more of a definite-- all right, he wants to shop a little bit. I know you want to shop, but listen-- [INAUDIBLE] OK, let's move you back here where there's less shopping. Come here. Come here. Come on. Hey. Jane, repeat this question. But what happens if you can't get the puppy to pay attention to the clicker hand and only to the food hand? So do you have suggestions for working with a difficult puppy? So the question is, what if you can't get the puppy to pay attention to the clicker hand and only the food hand? So let me just finish with this puppy. And then I'm going to answer it, because it's actually a much more profound question than they probably even realize. So I'm going to come back to that one. Hold on. Let me just say speaking of which-- if I can get this puppy to focus on my finger for a minute, or if he's had it. Have you had it, buddy? I know. The food is in that hand, but you need to look at the other hand. Here. Here. Oh. Come here, girl. Come here, girl. Hi. I know. I know. I know. Maybe we just need to play for a minute. Maybe Sparky just needs a little loving. Maybe that's what the issue is. Maybe that's what the issue is. He says, I'm six weeks old, and this is a lot. It's a lot for me. Come here. Come here. Come here. Can you do a little more? He may be done. Is Sparky typical for a puppy this age? Well, he is in typical range. You can put him back. He's not going to-- he's very-- yes. He is absolutely typical range. He's not a difficult puppy. But he's also not a star like the other puppies are just a little faster. OK, so just a couple of points. First of all, a dog like Sparky is probably going to be a lot easier to live with than a dog like Sassy. Sassy is a genius. She's going to be the smartest. She's going to be the most drive. She's going to be the easiest to train. But she's also going to be a challenging dog to live with-- busy, smart, active. This is a great dog. This is a great pet, Sparky. But somebody asked-- the question was, what do you do with a puppy that won't focus on the clicker hand? A puppy that just wants to focus on the bait. And as soon as you try and use the clicker hand, that they won't focus on that. They keep wanting to turn around and look at the bait. And do I have any tips for dealing with a difficult puppy? And it's a great question. Excuse me. I have to take a sip of water, Because this is a really core concept that is difficult for some dogs to get, which again, I call it the puppies look away from the cookie to get the cookie. The fact that they have to know that the food is some place and look away from it, and do something else-- that is a really important core concept in life, because it's impulse control. And it's also very difficult for some puppies to get. So my answer to that is play a lot of the box game. Play a lot of the box game-- do a lot of these kind of operant problem solving games so again the puppy understands that seeing the food in your hand and looking away from it to do something else-- it's a core concept that they can wrap their head around. Other than just working with the puppy more and keep trying, and keep trying, and playing the box game, and doing this, there is no magic trick. You just might have to go a little bit slower. But the good news is that the penny does drop for them. At some point, they understand it. It's a six-week old puppy. It's tiny. It's not like he's not going to get it. He's going to get it. But it's that concept of being operant that is in some puppies a little bit more difficult to instill. But there's nothing special you do. You just take it a little slower and maybe drop back to more, again, doing things like the box game. That's teaching the dog to go away from you and offer something else. Weej, oh, you look so tired, buddy. They're all getting tired. They're all getting tired. OK, Weejee, come on, buddy. Do you want to do some foot stacking, honey? Do you want to do some foot stacking? I don't know. We may not have much puppy left here. Weej, you want to do some foot stacking? Come here. Yeah. So no, I know. I know. The food is over there. The food is over there. I know it is. I know it is. Come here. So I do show it to them just to remind them that like, yeah, here it is. Here it is. Come here. Oh, he discovered the food thing. Come here. Oh, I just dumped that all behind me. Come here. Here, Weej. Come on. Good boy. Nicely done. You're a good little dog. Wow, Weejee, you're doing great. I love that Weej. Good boy. Good boy. Now, I mean I realize I'm probably not even moving the foot into the right place. [CLICK] I don't care. I just want him to become accustomed to me touching his feet and setting them. Good boy. Good boy. Oh, nicely done, Weejee. I also want to point out that, as far as the free stack goes-- that's really good, buddy. That's really good. That was a good turn for you. You let me do that. And that was enough for him. He's tired. He's been out already once today. It's a lot. He just does not need to do a whole lot. That was plenty. Two reps like that-- he's got it. You I'm working with these puppies a little bit longer, because I want to show you guys the progression. But really microsessions like that's enough. Gina? Another question-- "Do you find a hard surface is better for stack training? Or is grass/carpet OK?" Carpet is fine. I'm not crazy about grass with the tiny puppies, just because it's another confounding variable, as far as it can tickle their toes, or the food can drop. It gets lost. There are ants. There's a lot of things. I like to stack the hard surface, even just so I can see what's going on. "And for training purposes, do you mix it up? Do you, let's say, stack and another behavior? Or do you just stick with one behavior per training session?" Oh, yeah, especially a puppy-- well, yeah, what I've come to over the years is very discrete training sessions. So when I'm teaching something to a tiny baby puppy, I only teach that. I used to mix it up more. But I just find super, super short sessions, not more than 60 to 120 seconds and one thing at a time. When it comes to novel behaviors, it's going to be the fastest way to get them to learn. Now, once you've got a whole selection of behaviors that your puppy will do, a little bit older puppy-- yeah, you'd mix it up like as if you were going to puppy class. You do transitions between behaviors, which is very important. But when you're teaching a novel behavior, I really wouldn't try teaching two novel behaviors in one session. OK. Let me ask about about teaching on the tables. Is it better to start off on the floor? And what different types of surface to train on? Do you train on hard surface? Grass? Isn't that the same question that they just asked? OK, well similar. Not the part about the table. So I think I answered the part about the different surfaces. Hello. Hello, Imogene. Hello, my darling. So I answered the part about the different surfaces-- but, what? Am I-- I'm stuck here? OK. But as far as the table goes, I would not start on the table, because again, it's just-- it's one more criterion that I just don't want to add. I don't want to add height being up in the air on a table unstable surface. That's something that comes to me. After I've trained all this pretty solid, then I put them on a table. I know a lot of people want to start on the table training this, because they're going to be a table breed, and that's where they're going to be. They have to get used to it. In that case, my inclination would be to get a CER on the table. Just feed the dog on the table. Get the dog used to the table. Get the dog used to being, yes, I know. I know. It's awfully exciting. There's meat back there. Gina, would you actually take this away, because now she's seen it? It's just going to be-- it's just going to be ridiculous. So I would get that puppy used to the table first. And I train them separately. And then I put the puppy on the table. Yes. Hi, hi. Hi. How you doing? How's it going? I know. It's awfully exciting. we have this food. But here. Look. Oh, you are just a genius. Look at you. It's like she goes from stop motion to fast motion. [CLICK] Good girl. That's awfully good. OK, let's move some feet around, Imogene. [CLICK] Awfully good. Awfully good dog. [INAUDIBLE] looks for that food? Yeah, she knows where the food is, right. [CLICK] Awfully good dog. You're an awfully good dog, Imogene. Really, really good. I know. Yeah, you can see a good CER in this, because you would think that she doesn't-- she doesn't know where the food is, that she might think food is in my hand. But the second she hears the click, she knows exactly where she's going to go to get her food. Hold still. Come on. Come on, baby, baby. Come on baby, baby. Come back over here. Now, listen, listen. You've got to stand up. You've got to let me move two feet now. Let me move two feet. [CLICK] Yes, that's really good. That's really good. Look at you. Ow! Ow! That's crazy stuff. That's crazy stuff. Woo, da, didi, didi, crazy stuff. All right, Gina, that was good for her. That was good. Yes. That was really good. That was really good. We just got Mrs. Sassy. Whoa! Imogene is starving. We never feed any of our puppies. Done with them? If you could go over the schedule for the remaining . [INAUDIBLE] OK, we will. Do you ever us a verbal command as part of this? I thought I heard you use one with Daphne. That would be the release probably. Well, I have two verbal commands that I use. If somebody wants to know if I ever use a verbal command. And I don't use a verbal command for the stack. It's the finger. But if she has-- if her front feet aren't placed the way I want them to, and this is another thing-- there's a million pieces to this that go into a finished adult stack. But I teach them to yield to pressure. So I will pull a little bit on the leash-- just pull a little bit, and I'll say step. And that means for her to step one of her front feet forward until she's lined up more evenly and then also the release is OK. So once I want her to break out of this stack, I have a verbal release. Again, future episodes, a lot of pieces-- that's why I showed you the whole, completed, finished product, because if there's probably 10 lessons in there-- 10 lessons I would give you, but three years of training in that dog to get her to the point where she could show like that. Hi. Hi. Oh, this is my real star right here. This is my biggest star. This is Sassy. Are you read? Are you awake? Oh, Sassy. You ready? You awake? Let's do it, Sass. Come on, Sass. OK. Just a review. So I start out with a little review click there. [INAUDIBLE] foot. Good. That's one foot. Oh, that's a big piece. That piece is a bit large. Let's break that up. There. OK. So now we're going to do one. Stand. One, two. Good girl. Very well done. Very well done. All right, I'm going to stand here. [CLICK] Good girl. Again, I'm not so much concerned with whether I'm putting her feet in the right position or not, just that I can set feet. And I know that normally you start in the front, and you set the front first. When I'm training, I train them on the back first just because it's easier. When you start reaching your hand into the front, it's more distracting for them. She's already setting herself up. She's like what just do this again. [CLICK] Good girl. Did you see her? She was like, no, no, we're going to stack now. We're going to set that up, because I'd like some more cheese. Keep that right there. [CLICK] Good girl. Good girl. How's that? OK, you want to do it again? Yes, you are a star, Sassy. You are. We know you are. That's why you're Sassy. OK, so nobody dies if she moves or anything. It's no big deal. Come here. Good girl. Hey, are we done? This is an attention span. Here. Good girl. Are we done? Oh, are you done? Is that as much stacking as you can do today? She did so good. She did so good. Are you finished? You done? Here. Just have some cheese. That was good. What you did was very good. You know, so this brings me to another thing, which is ending on a good note. People are always like, well, I want to end on a good note. And so what will happen is-- they'll have a situation like this where they just get really, really good right out of the box. That was very quick. She just allowed us to get all four feet. We did really well with her. And I said, OK, you know, I'm going to do it one more time. And then it just basically-- she'd run out of gas. That was it. Her attention span was done. She was probably having some response fatigue. It just-- we weren't going to get it anymore. So what a lot of people will do at that point is say, oh, you know what? I want to end in a good note. I don't want to have her fail. So they'll just drop back and just click her once for something less. And like, for instance, like maybe not touching a back foot. Or they'll go back to baiting her just to get something that they can have success. And here's what I'm going to tell you. Over time, this was my mistake in the sense of that she's tired. She's a baby. I should have just taken the good rep and run like a thief. But no, I had to do another one. That was my fail. If I then say, well, I'm just-- I don't want to end on a bad note. So I'm going to drop back on my criteria so that we can end well. Basically, I'm training my dog to force me to lower my criteria, because she's going to learn that when it gets hard, and I don't-- it's a little difficult for me to think, I just have to act, you know, just not respond. And then it's going to get easier. I'm never going to have to step it up and try harder, because it's always going to get easier if I give up. So in that case, it's a management-- you know, you take your lumps. I should've stopped earlier. And I'm not going to drop back and do something less, because that ultimately will train her. That will train her to force me to lower my criteria. And I've had it happen, trust me, many times with dogs before I finally figured out what was going on. Right? Right? So we just have to, as grownups, be very careful.

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Duration: 1 hour, 3 minutes and 23 seconds
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Posted by: norabean on Apr 5, 2018


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