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Jacque Fresco - Depression, Self-identification, Predictability, Reinforcements [full]

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Jacque Fresco Depression, Self-identification, Predictability, Reinforcements The discussion today is about depression. There are many people that have been depressed for many years and I get lots of letters. And sometimes they say that "I found no meaning in life, no purpose, and you pulled me out of it." I get a lot of letters like that. So that's the only thing I can say [is that] it's not due to genetics. If it was due to genetics, I couldn't pull them out. Does that make sense to you? Now what is depression? If you live vicariously through another person - let's say you rely on that person entirely - you live, and that person dies, you lose your identity because you put your identity in another person which isn't a good thing to do. That's a kind of dependency. You know what I mean? So that's part of depression, a little bit of it. The rest is loss of identity. And you can lose your identity if you're brought up with a philosophy of life that doesn't reinforce you. If you're brought up with a set of values: "Do the right thing and everything will work out all right," and if it doesn't work out all right, you become depressed because you lose predictability. Is that clear? If you have predictability about yourself and other people you can anticipate certain things. But if you have no answers, if you look for answers in your own mind it isn't exposed enough. There's not enough in schools that give you a way of thinking so you can solve problems. It isn't that they don't want to. They don't have it. They've never found a way of thinking that can solve problems. That's why, when the businessman retires he may become depressed because he has no game to play. All his life, say a guy that owns a jewelry store, that sells jewelry and every sale makes him feel good. Then he retires and he has nothing anymore. He has no identity, except sales of jewelry. Do you understand? That's gone. What follows is depression. There are some dogs that have been depressed due to they had a very close relationship with their master. When the master dies they sat next to the master and wouldn't go away and bark at anybody that would try to take them away. Because their full identification was as a team with their master. They had no identification when the master died. They had no way of looking at it. The difference between humans and most animals [is that] most animals don't fear death. They don't even know there is such a thing. But they move away from animals that are larger than they are. That's a reflex, but they don't know what death is nor do they think of it. So far, any questions? Okay. So a person that asks themselves questions: "Why did my wife leave me?" and they can't figure it out, because everything they've done was pleasing and they don't understand it. That is not necessarily a logical question. Your wife may have left you for many different reasons: that she likes a guy tall, with blond wavy hair or stocky, or whatever. And if you don't meet that image, she might leave you. The assumption that she won't leave you is what can depress you. Your assumption about the world - "Surely they won't have another war, while they're having a war now!" - you can't say that. You can say "I'd like to see peace on Earth," so you work toward it. But if you hope there's peace on Earth you might get depressed by the next war. See, when people say to me "When will the Venus Project be built?" the honest answer is "I don't know." I don't even know if we'll get there. But I can't accept what I see, so I try to intervene. Intervening, does that mean we'll have a better world? Not necessarily. Whatever you get is what you get. Do you understand that? The assumptions: "Surely people can all see the logic of a one global society." No they can't! That's a major problem. So you use different techniques to try to get them oriented towards that. Okay, so what is depression and how do you get rid of it? If you're depressed it means you're looking within yourself for answers and you can't get that. How did I get it? I didn't find it in psychology books at all. Here's how I got it. I sat down, I said: "What is depression?" I said "I don't know." How can I know what it is? But a depressed person always seems to have a low self-image. Do you know what that means? "I'm not getting anywhere in life. I'm not respected, three girls left me," whatever it is. It's a low self-sufficiency to start with. Now, instead of looking for the girl of your dreams you try to make her. Do you know what that means? Educate her, in whatever way you can. Does it mean that it will work perfectly? No. But it will work better than you doing nothing. Do you understand that? Therefore depression is not only loss of self-image, they have none. A guy finds himself in the Marines and he wants to be successful in the Marines and that can't bring success, unless they give you medals and everybody pats you on the back. That's your self-image: "I made it" you can say. Or an actor, that does... a theater actor that acts before a live audience and they applaud after. That makes him feel good. [When it's] a movie, he doesn't know. If he works in a movie, he doesn't know that people are going to applaud. Do you understand that? Therefore he could encounter depression. Anybody that does any routine: a job, a jeweler, a plumber, an artist, a painter, if they don't get rewarded for their painting like "You're a genius, you're good, creative" that makes them go on painting. But if people say "What the hell is that supposed to be?" If they paint because they like to paint that's much better if that occurs. If you go for a walk because you like to go for a walk, not because the doctor told you to go for a walk, everyday, for at least a half hour but if you don't do it because YOU want to do it. If you go out for a walk through the country and you smell the trees and you look around and you're pleased by that, do it. If it depresses you going for a walk you have to restore the self-image. In most instances there is no self-image so you have to give them a self-image. You have to talk about a lot of things, a person says "Gee I didn't know that that water became ice suddenly. I thought it was gradually how it became..." Whatever it is, if you expose them to different branches of science and they begin to find answers that satisfy them their self-image grows. But if you make a Lutheran out of a person that says "Have faith in God. He'll look after you," if you put that faith in somebody you can't see or touch it may carry you through because you know there's somebody up there that loves you even though nobody does (that there is somebody up there). And that helps some people but it's not genuine help. Do you understand? Because he says to the minister "What did I do wrong?" If you believe in right and wrong you can get depressed: "I must have done the wrong thing." It isn't the "wrong" thing that you do. It's the less valid thing that you do. It's a less appropriate thing that you do. Do you know what I mean? Not wrong. If you work on somebody: "Snap out of that depression! Have faith in yourself and confidence!" Well they might get fooled "Gee, you sound great!" but that doesn't take away that self-image. You don't take away the self-image. You add to it. You understand what that means? Whatever the person is. They only have no self-image. They don't know who they are. If you're in pain, that's different. I'm not talking about that. If you have a tumor growing in your lungs and you can hardly breathe, that's something else. That's not depression. That's physical disability. But if you have your health and you feel that you're learning something everyday. And don't ever assume that you can fix something too. You can try to fix it: "I'm going to try to fix it." If that doesn't work you come at it another way. If that doesn't work, say "I can't handle it, I need more information in that area." That's what self-confidence is. The more genuine information a person has in certain areas... People that do feel "I can't get up before a hundred people and say something because I worry about whether I'll goof, and they'll laugh at me." Here's how you handle that. You never talk to people to win approval. You talk to people to inform. If you were in a building, you were in the hallway, and a big beam fell on fire, you'd go in for the thousand people and say "Exit as fast as you can. There's a fire!" and you won't feel bad about it, because what you're saying is essential to their well-being. But when you gamble and you say "I don't believe in God!" at a church meeting, they'd all say "What?!" They're not going to say "How do you account for all this?" They don't even do that. If they don't do that, there's no bridge. You have to build a bridge. Even a religious person, when they get a [broken] window crank and they crank it and the window doesn't open they take it back to the company. They need verification. When they buy something the [sales] guy says "If you buy this window it's hurricane-proof because there's a sheet of plastic between two sheets of glass so you can't smash it with an object." You have to give the person with a low self-sufficiency a high self-sufficiency by giving him a direction, or her, so they don't concentrate on themselves. "I've been working all these years and I've nothing to show for it!" "Did you assume that you would have something?" What you have to do is engage in self-image in asking questions: Why I am depressed? Why do I feel insufficient in a crowd? Because I'm hoping the crowd will like what I say. [As for me] I don't give a shit. If they believe the Earth is flat and I find out it's round I enjoy telling them it's round. If they refuse it, that's their problem, not mine. But if you feel you are unsuccessful in presenting an idea the assumption that you will be successful is depressing. Do you understand that? That's what makes depression. When you do something and nothing happens. When you row a boat and it doesn't move. If you get in a boat, but you don't know how to use the oars and it doesn't move, you get depressed. When you pull on the string and the motor doesn't start you say "What the hell?" and you pull on it, until it does start or you learn that you might have to change the spark plug. It might have a shorter gap or a longer gap and you bring the gap closer together, so you have a spark. If you don't know those basic things, you can kick the lawnmower. We tend to project living human characteristics into things. Sometimes, if your binoculars don't work, you throw them on the couch. Do you know what I mean? Because you get mad at the binoculars. You give it a personality "God damn it, you should work!" "I paid $40 for it. That's why it should work." No, you paid $40 and it doesn't work, so you take it back, or you leave it until you go into town again. But throwing it on the couch or the floor, doesn't make it work. Sometimes, if there's a loose wire in your TV set and you kick the set and the wires [connect], it'll go on again. And so sometimes that carries on that type of value system. I think I covered everything related to depression. It's a low self-image, or no self-image, or looking for justice. If you give them something to do that they identify with - not something that you like - something... Talk to them about The Venus Project, work on it, talk about other people. Then they feel they're doing something. If other people don't understand them, they might feel disappointed. What they're disappointed in is their inability to make contact with other people. So it takes practice and error, and mistakes. When I first walked over to the [Ku Klux] Klan people [and] said "Why are you beating up the black guy? He didn't do anything to you," they'd just say "There's a nigger-lover from the North!" They did not hear that, nor could they hear that. Do you understand? So if you talk to a depressed person, and you show them what it is so that they know what's wrong with them: they don't have a self-image. How do you get a self-image? By learning new things. By learning things that take you out of the old value system. I reject the idea of modern neurologists that might feel that depression is genetically inherited, or just a product of genetic damage. The reason I don't believe that, is I worked with so many people - alcoholics, drug addicts, people with a prison record - and I took that out in one session. So if it was genetic, it wouldn't come out. That's how I know it works. And I don't know if you save the letters, do you? ... that we get from people, that said “I was about to turn my life in. I had no reason. You gave me a reason to live and work." So, that's all I can go by, not genetics. I can't do anything with genetics. If a doctor says “Someday, we'll have a cure for cancer," that may encourage a person, but it won't encourage me, unless I say “What is your approach?" and they give me an approach. That would encourage me, if I had cancer. Do you understand? If the guy says "I'm sure you'll get well! Have faith in yourself." Cancer don't give a shit about it. It just keeps multiplying. You might live a week longer or three weeks longer, if you have self-confidence. But, always ask a person ... like nobody asks any of these Tea Group people: “What would you do under these circumstances? How would you solve this problem? How would you get the Democrats to see the Republican point of view?” They never talk about that. They talk about their own limitations. I would say, therefore, most capitalists that drive that system are very simple people with a low self-image. Now I did mention in the past that psychologists have a higher suicide rate than normal. That means they undergo depression. And if they really ask the question: “What is depression?" say "I don't know," then a guy writes a theory of genetics, of the genes; that doesn't take away the depression. Do you understand that? Taking drugs might tranquilize you, or drinking alcohol, when you’re depressed, might take you out of your self-image. You just sit there and look around. It makes you feel relaxed and comfortable. Next day there's a hangover and a depression, if you don't deal with it. Now you can't deal with it if you don't even know how to go about looking into it. So let me show you how you go about looking into “What is a depression?" You read the books on genetics and you understand that pills can make a person feel more in equilibrium. Is the chemistry of the body in equilibrium? If you’re depressed, [No]. Your digestive system stops, a lot of other things manifest themselves. But if you feel positive about what you're doing-... If you're sawing a tree down and say “I hate to do this!" well you poison yourself. You understand what I mean? Anything you do that you don't like. But if you say “I have to repair that model or clean it, and that's gonna take about two and a half hours." That depends on your predictability. If it takes five hours, you might be disappointed. Not in the vision, not in the thing, in your estimation. Do you understand? It's your own estimation. If you figure it should take you three days to do a given job, if it takes 23 days, you then may get disappointed. Say “I don't know how long it'll take, but I'm gonna check it out." And you do a certain amount of work and you predict the next, and if it comes close, you can use that method of predictability. Is there anything ... did you get this message? This is how you deal with depressed people and that's what depression is, unless you have further questions. Put it out there, let's see how it works. If you get a response saying “You know, that really helped a lot ..." Psychiatrists don't even know what the question is! They think some people are depressed and others aren't, and some are happy-go-lucky no matter what. They have a self-image even though it’s false. If you're a minister and you administer people's problems and they feel good about it, you feel you're doing something useful. There are ministers that feel that they’re administering to human need. And as long as the person says “God bless you! Thank you, you've helped me a lot," whatever the minister did, helped them. But if the minister was an operational linguist and he helped them to understand what they're going through and why people get depressed, I think that's better than comforting them, saying “You’ll pull out of it. I have every confidence that you will!" Well if your minister says that, there may be a basis for it, but it's not real. Knowing the difference is a problem. So the Tea Party is a group of people that believe in the structure of this economic system. Why? Because they're successful in it. A military man that's awarded a higher position, if he gets to be Captain or Lieutenant Colonel, he gets a reward for it. So he feels very proud. The more merit badges he has, the greater he feels. If a Nazi has a lot of merit badges the Jews don't feel too good about that, but the Nazi feels great about it. Do you understand? So what is a reinforcer? Whatever the hell reinforces people, except alcohol. That's a dependency that makes you feel like you don't-... You lose your identity under alcohol. Say “Did I say that when I was drunk?" because you don't even know what you said. That means you don't have your own identity. Identity means ... Fresco likes to walk in the sun. He likes to make things. He likes to talk to people about their problems. But he feels that ... If I share the tools I have and say "Keep coming to me" and I never give them my tools, I do not help them, really, unless I give them the tools that I have. The same tools that enables me to solve a problem. Okay? But I’d rather not give these tools out, because I'm afraid of the culture. They'll commercialize on it, use it, but they won't change the way people think about things. Not only depression, I try to change the way people think about most everything. Now if you don't understand what I'm saying, you might even hate what I'm saying, or say “That doesn't answer the question." (Roxanne Meadows) I remember in your old lectures you used to tell people to write a list when you're not - when you're feeling better, when you're not depressed - write a list of all the things you like to do, all the things you don't like to do, and then when you're depressed look at the list and just do those things that you like to do. - And when you're depressed you don't feel like doing it. - But you used to use that as a tool, didn't you? - Yeah, well ... it worked at the time. All I can say is I'm giving you the focal point of a depression: loss of self-image. “Who am I? Where am I going? What is my life about? I don't know. I don't even know if I'd be successful in anything." That's no self-image. You're always successful at something. You can always teach somebody something. You're not totally a total failure. If a person comes to me and says “I'm depressed" that's better, if they come here. You begin with social awareness that football is really a little spot in entertainment. But when you inform people, it changes a lot of things. Football just makes the game pleasant but if you lose, you're depressed. And they get into fights a lot! I don't know if you know that, all over the world. So it isn't a good thing. No competitive sports. When a guy hits a golf ball and it misses, he throws the stick down on the ground, the putter, is that what you call it? He throws it on the ground. And he feels bad. And when the audience applauds when he hits it, and it goes in the hole and they applaud, makes him feel good. He has a self-image. But when he hits it and it doesn't go in the hole, the audience just looks on, and they don't reinforce him. So if I designed a magnetic system in the hole and a steel ball in the golf, even if he missed it it would be going in the hole ... you know? What do you want? It's such a ridiculous game, of hitting your golf ball then looking for it. What a ridiculous game! ... or racing cars around in a circle. If you get your kicks out of that, it's because you have a low self-image and you love it when the audience says “You won that race, you did a beautiful job!" And that is a moment in time. But the things we are working on are everything: the games of the future, things of that sort. A game of the future, typical game of the future, is not made by people who make games. They would be like this: There'd be a map, and then you'd find out which state has most cancer and you put these little beads there, and the other state that has the least amount of cancer. But when you're through playing the game you'll know what the hell exists in America. You know the states with the highest divorce rate, the highest crime rate, where there's more poverty. If you find out that poverty encourages aberrant behavior, then if you don't want to do anything about it, you don't understand that problem. If you give a working man a little above the standard of living - so he can buy a television set, a radio, a cell phone - if you just give him enough to live on, you don't build a steady person, a loyal person. If a person has a little more than they need, they'll come back to work. If you give them more than they need, they won't show up. So the money system kills incentives to go to work. People say “Fuck it, I'm not going in. I'm gonna call in sick." You ever hear that? So they call in sick! But that isn't the answer. "You should be obedient to your corporation." That's a control device, you know. "I love my company." If you love your company that's no self-image at all. The union has a self-image. They like to see the company succeed, but they like a piece of the action. So instead of making $18 a week they go on strike and they get $25 a week. But the company loses the competitive edge, because they have to raise the price of their product. So they hate unions, because it lowers their standard of living. The unions love unions - the members - it raises their standard of living. Everybody's right - that's the trouble with the world - but nobody knows what to do. Nobody wants to give up their position of advantage.

Video Details

Duration: 28 minutes and 12 seconds
Country: United States
Language: English
Producer: The Venus Project
Director: The Venus Project
Views: 62
Posted by: ltiofficial on Nov 7, 2014

Jacque discusses 'what is depression?', and talks about elements of self-image and identification that produce low self-sufficiency. Covers how projections create disappointment, how "looking within" rarely works, and shows how certain reward/reinforcements often provide only palliative help.

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