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Larry King Interview 1974 (Full Version) 1/2

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This is a new science: socio-cyberneering. And this is its inventor, the extraordinary Jacque Fresco. He's my guest this weekend on Newsweekend. My guest is an extraordinary Miamian: Dr. Jacque Fresco. I could through all the things that Dr. Fresco has done: he's a social engineer; industrial engineer; designer; inventor; was a consultant for rotorcraft helicopter; director of Scientific Research Laboratories, Los Angeles; designed and copyrighted various items, ranging from drafting instruments to Xray units; has had works published in the architectural record, Popular Mechanics Saturday Review; and has been a technical and psychological consultant to the motion picture industry; member of the Air Force; designed the development unit at Right Field; developed the electrostatic anti-icing systems; designed prefabricated aluminum houses. What does it say on your driver's license? JF: *laughs* LK: What is the occupation? JF: Industrial Designer / Social Engineer. LK: Jacque, does it bug you that people, when they talk about Jacque Fresco in Miami, say that he's someone who is, "Too far ahead of his time." "We're not ready for advanced kind of thinking of that type." Does it bug you? JF: I imagine every creative person in every field encounters that sort of problem. No, it doesn't. I can't afford it. There are too many things that are important. LK: What is socio-cyberneering? JF: Socio-cyberneering is a new organization, and it represents the application of the most sophisticated forms of science and technology toward problem solving, so that we can reclaim the environment -- which we loused up over the years -- and to build a way of life worthy of man to humanize society, to break away from the artificiality, the regimentation that dominates society today. Our society seems torn apart, and pulled in many directions. Socio-cybeneering is an -approach- at the restructuring of society in humanistic terms. LK: Humanistic terms? - JF: Yes. LK: The times I've spoken to you, you're very science- and technological-oriented. You want categories -- and people, I remember, classified in categories, and certain people living "here" and "there". JF: I never wanted that. Let's say that we didn't read each other, or I did not communicate the ideas. In essence, to me, all of the marvels of science and technology, all of the electronics and mechanical wonders, are just so many millions of tons of junk---unless it enhances the lives of men. The reason we emphasize machines and technology is to free man: to go to art centers, music centers, cultural centers, and to find the meaning of their own existence and lives. LK: How much can machines do? Can they run the things that are necessary to run? JF: Well, Mr. King, if we can launch a rocket off the Earth while it's turning, find a place on the Moon, land it automatically, pick up samples of the soil, bring the ship back without humans (I think the Russians have done this), bring the ship back to the Earth... surely, we can handle airliners or anything else with redundancy. LK: The problem though is our political structure is... How do you start changing a society this much, which has really no political system? JF: No; it has no political system. It is not affiliated with any political party. It is neither communist, fascist, nor socialist, nor democratic. Socio-cyberneering is a sort of a quantum jump -- a severe departure in man's way of thinking. LK: How do you make a severe departure with millions of people? JF: With millions of people... well, I think you pretty much understand that most of the development we have in our society today ---the technology: the airplane, TV, radio, modern production technology--- is really done by very few people. I would say that several hundred people comprise the modern technological civilization. But you don't need million of technicians and millions of scientists. How many people---that you know of today, who sit in their home and play their phonograph, and radio, and TV--- have any idea of how this works? It's just happening around them. LK: -I- don't have any idea. JF: And they're falling behind! What is happening to man is that his technological society ---the newer value systems that dominate our times, that are pressing onward--- are just leaving behind hundreds of thousands of people that cannot make the transition! In other words, people that can't change can be found in the Amazon jungle today: the head-hunters. And we've got to change. I think that the book "Future Shock" ... (or the book I've worked on: Looking Forward) ... "Future Shock" points out that there are a lot of things going to happen, whether you like it or not. The future cannot be stopped by anyone. It is a continuous progression. LK: But there are always going to be large groups of people who are going to have trouble handling it. JF: Yes, this is true. ...We agree. - LK: Look at the change of someone, 60 years old, who has seen unbelievable change in their lifetime. JF: I believe they can change quickly if the information is made available to them. In other words, to present socio-cyberneering in one shot is extremely difficult. I believe that people should not be divided: the youngsters, the adolescents, and finally the mature young adults, and then the older folks, are all divided people! When you get to be 65, you don't want to travel on an ocean liner with old folks. How come we put up these buildings for the old folks? We think that people ought to live wherever the hell they want to live, and that cities must be designed so that we have an integrated, intelligent society. Einstein, when he was 65 or 70 years old, he would talk to youngsters! He kept reading. He kept up with ideas. Why must societies be divided into different groups? We think that you're as young as your life permits you to be, as your exposure, as your ideas. LK: Alright, let's, with pictures, explore the thinking of Jacque Fresco, and the society he'd like to see: socio-cyberneering. Now, we'll start with this, and you tell me... JF: I'll try to point it out. - LK: Yeah, you can point right at it. JF: All of the new cities will be a university -- in essence. The center of the city -- the nucleus -- will house an electronic computer, which only controls the weather, water purification, the atmospheric conditions--- that is: it controls air contamination systems. The computers do not---I say it again---do not control people! They maintain safety; they oversee the environment, maintain ecological balance between animal life and plant life. All the machines do is control the physical entities that comprise the environment. The center of the city is a university--- a university that covers all subjects related to man. It is not a commercial university. It is not based on any... There are no courses that are used to exploit or abuse any other human being. All business courses will be phased out. All repetitious jobs will be phased out. We feel that machines ought to do the filthy, or the repetitious, or the boring jobs--- that man has to be free to pursue the higher things, the higher possibilities of man. In other words, if this is the medical unit (this little branch), and if you work in this center, you may live in the garden cities that surround the center. You don't -have- to. You can if you will. Each of the garden cities contain lakes, recreation areas, etc. And, between cities, we let everything go back to nature. LK: Will computers be able to control the weather? JF: That is a relatively easy project to manage. LK: Easy to control? JF: Yes. - LK: You could control the weather? JF: I could go into that with you in a little while. LK: Alright. JF: Can I finish that? LK: Oh, okay; sorry. JF: On the outer rim of the city, we have the agricultural belt. All of your garbage is compressed and pumped, recycled out to the agricultural belt. There are no garbage trucks. There are no dump fields. We use everything. All waste is recycled. This is an ecological program. LK: Alright. Now, this is what the total city... JF: The total city looks like this. There are circular conveyor belts that take you anywhere in the city in three minutes. The city population in this particular city is 15,000. We have larger cities designed -- up to two million. The cities are all immersed in beautiful gardens. There are no trees in a row. It is not a mechanical environment. It is essentially a city immersed in a second Garden of Eden--- where there are lakes, recreation areas, art centers, music centers, cultural centers. And, surrounding the city, we have the agricultural belt, where we grow foods hydroponically. Between cities, we let everything go back to nature. The deer, the coyote -- the entire ecological balance is maintained. LK: We grow foods how? - JF: Hydroponically. LK: What's that? - JF: Soilless agriculture, in some instances. And, in other instances, we use conventional agriculture, which we'll get into in the drawings as we go through the subject. LK: Alright. Before we get to the other pictures, what jobs, that we now know, will not be present in this concept? JF: Well, most. - LK: Like garbage men -- gone, right? JF: Yes. All repetition. All people working in factories. - LK: Mailmen? JF: No mailmen, no waitresses, no waiters, no cooks. LK: When you go out to eat, how will you get your food? JF: Well, there are beautifully designed areas for eating, in which you have all kinds of food. Japanese, French food, organic food -- and the standards, if you like it. LK: And how would it get to you? JF: The way the food gets to you: what we do is monitor the behavior of a cook. That is, we do a multi-channel tape -- on the best cooks that we know of. And, as they prepare their food, we tape every move they make, and how they handle food, and how they dice the carrots---the way you like it! Then you dial "2736", and you get the kind of food you want -- Chef Milani style, or individualized. You can even tape your own cooking! LK: I remember 5 years ago I used to laugh at you, and now all this is very believable. Alright; onward! What do we have here? JF: Areas like India, where you have high population densities, or areas like China, we just can't afford to go on and make an individual house for every human being. We just don't have that kind of energy. Our population has already surpassed the point of no return. We have to unify our architecture -- not that I like it. But we're trapped! We have to unify it and then make art centers, music centers, gardens, -between- the cities. In India, this would only extend six miles! And then you would have countryside, lakes, and hiking areas for most people. But, if you try to spread your cities out, as we're doing, you're going to louse up the entire area. LK: Are you betting that people will not declare war on each other? So that you can get at building all of this? JF: Well, we don't have much choice. We're going to destroy each other; or we're going to make it. LK: Now, this looks like some sort of... submerged stadium, with something flying. JF: In an area like Panakan Park, we might build circular cities in the sea. where the water is about 30 - 35 feet deep. Most of the apartment houses will open out into the sea. You can observe marine life and fish swimming by. There will be no zoos, no seaquariums. Everything will be observed in natural conditions. There will be boating, scuba-diving, recreation, and universities built in the sea. Socio-cyberneering encompasses the entire social spectrum. LK: These drawings all made by you? - JF: Yes. JF: This might represent an individual house. Most of the homes will be individually contoured. If you're an artist, you'll live in the kind of house that is most suitable to your areas of interest. If you're a technician or a musician, the house will be designed for your needs. Most of the houses will be self-generative. That is... The Sun's heat falls upon your roof and lowers the temperature on the inside of the house. The sunlight is scattered on the inner walls, in which you have a phosphor coating. And the room glows, all evening, with a soft glow--- without any electricity, without any power waste. All of the pavement in the area is black. Under the pavement are heating coils -- that is, built-in PVC tubing, or wiring -- or, conveyor tubing, for water. As the Sun beats down on the pavement, we get all the hot water we need, without burning any fuel---conserving energy all over the world, at a much lower cost. LK: Who's going to pay for all this? JF: Where's the money coming from? If you took all of the gold, and all of the wealth of this country, all of the certificates of debt, and all of the land ownership, all of the diamonds and rings, and dumped it off the coast of Japan, as long as you didn't touch the American way of thinking, our technology and our resources, we would not be impoverished at all. America's wealth is not its gold! Is not its banking institutions! These are false institutions. The entire money-structured and materialistic-oriented society is a false society. Ten or fifteen years from now, our society will go down in history as the lowest development in man. We have the brains, the know-how, the technology, and the feasibility to build an entirely new civilization. LK: You believe that we teach competition? That it's not bred into some--...? JF: Competition is dangerous, socially offensive, ...considered right and normal, because you are brought up to that value system. What kind of competition did Jesus have? What kind of competition is there in your body? Suppose your brain said, "I'm the most important organ!" And the liver said, "I am. And I want to go with a Free Enterprise system!" You'd rot away in a month... if every organ of your body went out for itself. LK: What's this? JF: Some individuals will live in homes of a different design. There will be a wide range of what you call individuality. The city is built to bring out what you call individuality: creativity, thinking, development. To question all things and challenge all ideas. The city is not Utopian. It is an open city -- to develop all ideas, to change our concepts when they need to be changed. LK: Here we have a 3-phase picture. JF: Architecture will run the gamut. All the buildings will be earthquake proof, fire proof, termite proof -- and shock resistant in that they will rest on this particularly designed sand bay so that no direct shock can be transferred to the architecture. There are no fire departments, because nothing in the architecture can burn. There are no television sets, radios, tape recorders, or record players. All of that is done by the central computer system, in which all of the world's music is housed in a central computer. You don't want records, tape recorders, all this junk that requires continuous maintenance. All you want is the music you like. You dial it, and you get the music. You don't need to pick up records or store them. You live in an insane culture---where we duplicate things! It's like having a television station in every home or every apartment building. All you want is the music; or the program. You dial that. There is where the computers come in. They don't control you. They provide you with the music, and the program. LK: But you would need a set in the house to get the programs. JF: No. All you need is an image screen. LK: An image screen? - JF: An image screen. A flat screen built in on the wall. You don't have a set sticking out. You don't have tape recorders. All you have is the music you like. LK: Did you read Ira Levin's 'This Perfect Day'? JF: No, I did not. LK: Well, he had a society like this, in which the computers -also- control the human beings. JF: Well, this I'm against... very much against. LK: He made it so, if you felt a little ill, you pressed the button, and you... JF: I don't like that. That's too much like 1984 (Orwell) and Brave New World (Huxley). This is humanistic. All our cities will be separated by a half mile of landscaped areas and return to natural ecological balance. The lakes, the hills, the valleys, the animal life between cities will go back to nature. LK: How will we travel? JF: Cities are connected from core to core by either cyclic elevators or linear transportation systems. There are no freeways -- and no automobiles, therefore no automobile accidents. No automobile accidents, because they don't exist. We have -continuous- transportation. You don't need to wait for a bus. We have continuous, moving conveyors. LK: Let's go back to money, which you said is unimportant. To start this, who will build it? LK: Who's going to build the first... JF: It's a membership organization. And a membership organization is like... the members pay about $10 a year, and they get the booklet, and the information, and they go to meetings. But the funds actually come from donations from organizations, and various agencies of the Federal Government, and private foundations -- to build the first city, to solve the transportation systems, to work out a totally different environment. And, after the first city is built, we expect a rapid growth in the membership. It is difficult for people to immediately understand socio-cyberneering, because it is not like anything else that you're familiar with. LK: Obviously it requires a change, of thinking. Well, you're not dull, Jacque. Okay. JF: For example: agriculture. You read of pests. You read of insecticides. You read of DDT. You read of constant spraying contaminating the Earth. People get angry. They join environmentalist groups. They try to save our environment---but they come up with no specific ideas. Socio-cyberneering has a blueprint for all of the identified problems. For example, all our agriculture will be totally enclosed, either in plastic or glass buildings, that can transmit ultraviolet light. Therefore, you have no insect invasion of plants. We also have special, ultrasonic generators, that keep all insects away from plants. If certain insects---particularly selected insects that are detrimental to plants--- are hit with ultra-sonic, then cavitation is produced. And their bodies rupture, fall to the soil, and enrich the soil. And are not washed into our rivers, and do not contaminate. Therefore, an agriculture that's enclosed: you're not subject to frost; you're not subject to freeze or weather. In other words, these nuclear plants out here, that dump their hot water into the bay, we use that hot water in the winter to enhance the plant life, to grow bananas in Georgia, in North Carolina, by using the hot water from nuclear plants. What do we do with the radioactive waste? We encase it in piping, and treat sewage water with the radiation -- not radioactive powder. But the radiation material is sealed. And, through a multiplicity of shields, we only use the radiation -- to clean the waters emitted by hospitals and all other sources of contamination. LK: You keep showing this figure of this thing flying around in the sky, so you better tell me what that is. - JF: Oh. This is one of the methods of conserving our land area. You read of erosion. Our beaches are being eroded. Land is being eroded. By designing and building underwater dams, which is entirely feasible within our time, we can modify the ocean current; we can modify the Japanese stream. We can build dams under the ocean, and utilize the Japanese current, oxygenate the water, and do away with the red tide. The red tide, by the way, can be dealt with by oxygenation, by recirculating the water, by building dams under the water in the Gulf Stream to set up greater turbulence in the water. And this is feasible. If we don't do it, we will cease to be as a nation. We have the energy, the know-how, the raw materials. Socio-cyberneering is an organization that is probably the boldest organization ever conceived of. We're undertaking the most ambitious project in the history of mankind. LK: What's this? JF: This represents a surveillance equipment aircraft to survey the areas, the movement of the currents, and to monitor Earth systems. LK: Alright, Jacque. JF: This represents a variation of the circular scheme. Most of the cities are based on natural configurations: the atomic structure; basic designs in nature. The center of the city might be related to studies of the human organism. This center here may be studies of diseases of the eye; other systems: diseases of the nervous system. An all-out research project on enhancing the lives of men. There are no military programs or projects in socio-cyberneering. LK: And no need for an army? JF: No need for an army. LK: Now, what if one people decides to attack another people? JF: We then invite. After the first city is built, we tend to go socio-cyberneering international, to invite the participation of all nations of the world into a system of monitoring the Earth, and using the Earth to enhance the lives of men. LK: What if one group of people get together and attack another group of people? JF: We believe that is done due to scarcity, or that a society suffers from economic deprivation, lack of arable land area, or overpopulation. LK: In other words, you believe it would not occur. JF: It would not occur. LK: What is this wild-looking thing? JF: This is clean sources of power. By utilizing the natural heat of the Earth that is: volcanic energy, or the magma, or the molten lava under the Earth, of which there are approximately 500 potentials, if we tap a mountain in Hawaii, called Mount Aloha, we can get enough power to electrify the world. We can get enough power from that volcano alone. We have 500 potential volcanoes we can harness. We can use that natural heat from the volcano. No smog. No smoke. No dirt. No gases. No fuels. No oil spills. And no more burning of fuels in any city to generate power. If Japan used Fugiyama, they don't need to burn oil. They don't need oil. All of that heat is sitting there!! 20 million years of power, right under the Earth's surface. In fact, you don't even need to use fusion power or nuclear power. And it's easy to tap. And it's clean, and available. As soon as we make up our minds, to put scientists rather than on weapons, nerve gas, on harnessing the Earth power that is already here. LK: How are you going to get the president of Florida Power and Light or Shell Oil to give up such a... JF: Socio-cyberneering does not appeal to governments, to private enterprise. We're going to do this thing. Just as the automobile phased out the stage-coach. Just as television stepped in and phased out the old vaudeville and the old motion pictures. History and technology are respecters of no society, no individual opinions. But it moves on. And we've got to be prepared to face the future. Socio-cyberneering will tackle some of the most ambitious projects in the history of man. This represents the building of underwater dams within the Gulf Stream. This dam will collect, direct, and route the waters of the sea into a spillway that is centrifically shaped so that fish and marine life are separated from the turbine blades. The Gulf Stream will generate power: to oxygenate the waters, to eliminate the red tide, to pick up the amount of fish in the ocean, to monitor marine life, and build an ecological relationship between the total oceanographic world and the continents. Areas where we've gone in for strip-mining and have loused up the land, by digging out the areas -- shamefully pitting the surface of the United States -- we feel we can build underground art cities, music centers, landscaped areas with gardens and lakes -- and reclaim those areas. LK: Now this looks like... a train station. JF: After the automobile is phased out, which we hope to do very rapidly, we hope to build a new transportation system and also phase out all forms of aircraft except surveillance. Aircraft helicopters... we think aircraft are no longer necessary. In fact the skies are so jammed, and landing is so difficult, and the speeds and the shockwave are no longer worth working on. I know the people in the aircraft business do not understand this, nor do they feel this, because they feel that all institutions tend to perpetuate themselves. We hope to phase out the airplane by designing transportation units that can move up to 2,000 miles an hour, floating on a magnetic repulsive field, or an 'air cushion'. And, in those huge trains of tomorrow, there will be television, radio, amusement, art centers, classrooms, not a group of seats lined up as your trains are today---highly regimented society, whether you know it or not. This society will be different in its transportation means. If forty or fifty people have to leave the train, we slow up to 100 miles an hour, lift off the passenger section, or slide it off, and slide on a section with the passengers getting on. You don't have to stop the whole plane or the train. Today, when three people are getting off, the airplane lands and three or four people get off. In the future, we will just shove off those passengers leaving that freight. LK: How will this go from, say, Miami to London? JF: We then have an underwater project, in which tunnels are suspended 125 feet beneath the surface of the sea, therefore you eliminate most of the ocean-going transportation systems. You're not subject to the weather or anything else. This is part of the linear acceleration train that can take you anywhere in the world in just a few hours, safely -- without snow, rain, being lost at sea. LK: Are all these things you're saying, Jacque, could they be built with what we know today? Or, with some of these things, are you -guessing-, based on what we know today? JF: No. All of these things can be built with what we know today. It would take 10 years to change the surface of the Earth, to rebuilt the world into a second Garden of Eden. The choice lies with you. The stupidity of a nuclear arms race, the development of weapons, trying to solve your problems politically by electing this political party or that political party... All politics is immersed in corruption. Let me say it again: communism, socialism, fascism, the democrats, the liberals... We want to absorb human beings. Women's Lib... -All- organizations that believe in the better life for man. There are no negro problems, or Polish problems, or Jewish problems, or Greek problems, or women's problems. They're human problems. To come into socio-cyberneering, and take your part, and function. We are not concerned with the divisions of segments of society. LK: No... control of population? JF: Population control is dependent upon education. We feel that an educated population needs no control. LK: You wouldn't stop sex... JF: No, Sir. LK: ...Good move, Jacque. What's this? JF: Some individuals may want to live in a way-out house. How far away to live will be determined by your value system, and your lifestyle. It is not a restricted society! It is not a 1984 (Orwell)! It is not a Brave New World (Huxley)! But it is something brand new. We would like you to investigate socio-cyberneering. LK: Now, I'm going to give the address out for people who would like to know more about -- oooh, the next one looks really weird. JF: Some people may want to live in a different kind of home. I myself am interested in world affairs, ecological changes, therefore the walls would have panoramic screens, giving me the kind of information that I am interested in. Your home may be different, designed to fit your needs. The homes will be molded. LK: Now, nobody will pay the builder of the home? He won't receive money? JF: No. LK: Why will he build the home? JF: "He" doesn't build the home. The homes are built through systems engineering, in which we can form a home every half hour, by blowing the floor up out of the ground, so that we have it up out of the plastic unit, which the floor is comprised of. We blow and shape the furniture, and then spray the furniture. In other words, if you're going to be here, if the United States is going to be here for the next 20 years, you can't have a plumber install the toilet bowl, and the sink, and the shower in the same old hand-tool fashion that was done forty years ago! We've got to make a quantum jump. Mold maybe fifteen different types of bathrooms. You pick out that which you like. The bathroom is self-cleaning, self-drying, and we install it in your architecture, based upon your selection. LK: What, uh... uh... It will be so hard to change. JF: How do we change humans? - LK: A lot of these things sound fascinating, but, in order to accomplish any of this, you require -- to me -- a change of the human. JF: The human value system. LK: How? We feel that if enough human beings are exposed to---- (please go to part 2)

Video Details

Duration: 29 minutes and 2 seconds
Year: 1974
Country: United States
Language: English
License: Dotsub - Standard License
Director: Reynolds
Views: 2,343
Posted by: venusproject on Sep 22, 2009

Larry King interviews Jacque Fresco in 1974.

Part 1 of 2.


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