Porfirio Rico
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This is an interview with Porfirio Rico, on October 14, 2008
in Santa Paula California
My name is Beatriz Zizumbo,
and this interview is part of the Bracero Oral History Project.
This is an interview with Mr. Porfirio Rico
October 14
in Santa Paula California.
My name is Beatriz Zizumbo, I am the interviewer
and this interview is part of the,
Bracero Program Oral History Project.
Good afternoon sir.
Okay, can you tell me a bit about where and when you were born?
-Where and when was I born? -Yes.
I was born in Jericó.
-Jericó -Michoacán.
In Mexico?
In Mexico.
Okay, and in what, when is your birthday?
I was born September 14, 1914
And you grew up in in Jeruco?
Yeah, there
and I started there...
well I worked away from there but…
I came here to Anaheim...
...in the beginning of 44.
I came contracted from Mexico.
Before we talk about the contracts...
...tell me a little bit about your family.
Tell me a little bit about your family and where you were born.
I already told you where I was born.
Yes, but how many people were in your family?
Siblings?
Yes, how many brothers and sister did you have?
More or less it was...
Anastacio, Imelda and...
Yofanis
Who else?
Ignacio...and...
Esperanza
and then Luz was born and
and Fabiela.
So how many boys and how many girls were there?
I think 5 boys no?
Me and Anastacio, two, Yofanis three, Ignacio four
and Luz five.
-And three girls? -Three
Okay, so there were 9 total?
Oh, no 8.
What did your parents do?
[Incomprehensible]
I want to say field workers but...
just because they came from the fields...
...they were just looking after the cows.
And where do your brothers and sisters live now?
Well, they’re all spread out wherever.
Are they still alive?
That's a different story.
Anastacio already died, Yofanis died...
Luz died, now only me and Ignacio are left
(Woman speaking in background)
Imelda died too.
There’s only two women and two men left.
Very well.
Tell me about when you went to school.
I only went to second.
-Second year of elementary? -Yup
and then they'd take me out because I would take care of the animals.
And did you go to school there in Jerucho or somewhere else?
No, just there. [Incomprehensible]
Did you learn how to read and write in school?
Practically nothing!
I taught myself how to mark my name and write something down
when I got her and said, ‘how am I going to write to the wife?’
I had to teach myself at least how to write my name.
And did you work while you were in school?
Well yeah
Well I didn’t work but regardless...
I was in the house here and there
I had to sweep, make the beds
[Incomprehensible]...
...clean the beans...
...go and get water. So I was working the whole day.
-So you did a lot of chores in your house? -Yes
Luz's wife knew about everything.
When you started your first job, where they paid you...
How old were you?
I started working at 10 or 11...
...with a friend of mine...
and it paid 15 cents.
Daily.
What did you do there?
In the salon, but like they say [Incomprehensible]
...with a big basket in the fields.
To harvest or to…?
No, well that was only when we worked with the basket, then you'd harvest
...but that’s another story.
Oh, so it was only tilling the soil?
Well, the good thing is that it paid.
Yeah, no after being married I got 6…7
...they paid me 35 cents.
And, for like 4, 5, 6 years.
-Six years after you got married? -Yes.
I got paid but I didn’t see any of it...
...because it all went to the house.
And that's why at the end [incomprehensible]...
...because I didn't do my work [incomprehensible]
What did you work as when you found out about the Bracero Program?
-What did I work as? -Yes
I was on the highway.
I worked on it for 5 years, rain or drought...
...working with a shovel and pick and wheelbarrow.
On the highway that’s in…?
Yeah, from Morelia to Guanajuato.
Or go to Juato, well it's from Michoacán...
...but from central Morelia to where the Guanajuato and Michoacán lines meet.
So you were involved in the construction of that highway?
And we worked with only shovels and wheelbarrows and picks.
I was there for 5 years through rain and drought
...working. After that I came to [incomprehensible] by myself...
...to fill carts with wood there.
...and I did it for about two years too.
Then from there I came to Aguascalientes...
...and the work was poor there and afterwards I came back...
...and I worked on my land where I would harvest a little corner...
...with the basket
That’s when they mentioned...
...the contracts in Mexico.
...and I went to Mexico and I signed up.
I came here.
So you had to travel more or less...
from Jeruco, Michoacán to Mexico?
How long did it take you to get signed?
From Morelia to Mexico?
6 hours
You had to travel 6 hours to sign up?
And then we’d have to go home to...
...tell them if we had worked it out...
...and then from there they'd send us...
...to Guato or Guadalajara to get the...
But the first time...
No, they hired us there in Mexico...
...the train would pick us up there too.
900 men in a, in one trainload.
And how did they call you?
Like when they said, ‘no you have to go to Mexico because there’s'…
Just through the contracts.
They’re hiring people for Braceros.
So you live in Jeruco, that’s when you came back from Aguascalientes?
But we only went to Aguascalientes during the week and...
...went back home on Saturday
You just went to notify your wife that…
That it had worked out in Mexico.
At that point were you married for the first time?
Yes
And we had two families.
-But you never came here before? -No
-Before the contracts... -No.
-It was the first time that… -It was my first time
When you decided to come over through the contracts...
...was it because there was no work in Mexico...
...and you wanted to progress with your family or because...
Why did you decide to come by contract?
There was nothing for someone to survive on
What did they gain?
-There was nothing -No.
People worked around town,
Sometimes...
they used you for a bit, then no.
There wasn’t work anywhere.
There were the people, we were really poor.
We didn’t have where to live, or clothes...
...or anything to eat, or anything.
The life of a person is very very sad.
Yes
Alright can you tell me a little bit more about the contract process?
Or what requirements did you have to complete to be able...
...to be part of the Bracero Program?
Well just that you were good and healthy
and…
...that you know how to work. That's it.
They didn’t ask for any papers
-No vaccinations, nothing? -No.
What was the process like when,
when you got to Mexico
and you formed a line or?
No, Well it was pure
you just made lines of 50 to 100 men
Then from there,
they would take you to sign up, see if
well ask them questions
if they knew how to work
what could they do or what did they know
they just didn’t say anything.
But if they knew how to work than yeah
[Incomprehensible] is that there wasn’t work here,
and the one who said
Well...Yeah
One time I annoyed them because they told me...
I had already come over,
but another time I went to sign up
they asked if I knew how to pick...
...melon
With a ladder or without, I told him with a ladder.
He said no, you’re lying.
I said well you didn’t ask what kind of melon
because there’s melon you pick with a ladder which is the papaya
and the melon that you pick in the [incomprehensible],
watermelon all of that so, yeah I know it, how would I not know it?
It's just when they told me...
This melon
But no, no, it was okay.
-But you’re familiar with it? -Yeah
-And what can you do? I told him...
Well I, I already [incomprehensible].
What can one do that another one can’t?
And when you went to the contracts did they tell you...
we are going to pay you this much or...
they didn't you how much they’d pay?
Nothing, you were just contracted to work,
here it was all about…
if someone worked per hour they paid you 72 cents an hour
and if you worked through the contracts
They'd only give you a week...
...to train to see what job they could perform.
And some were alive but dumb because they'd say...
...in the end I did well, thank God because...
Well I think God gives me [incomprehensible]
the first day I let myself fall, another day I did what I could to the limit
...but I tied myself up because then I couldn’t do less
...because they already knew what I could do at work.
And others, others said “nah man, why am I gonna kill myself if it’s just a week of...
...per hour, to get trained?
And I'd say 'well...' and they didn’t make the effort to see what it was worth
The next week it’ll be the same thing.
No, for next week I have to make what I’m making.
So others because of that no longer [incomprehensible]
and others chose to leave because they didn’t perform well.
It was laborious.
So when they enlisted you, with the people you came with...
they didn’t give you a physical exam?
They did everything to you.
You couldn’t have dandruff
You couldn’t have lice, you couldn’t have bad hygiene
So that’s why they would all say 'ahh, stupid bald people' because...
Well people would peel, we peeled from the sun, not of our own accord.
[Incomprehensible]
...others from there would take us out all peeling
Nah, well when they inspected us they took our clothes off
...and they would cover us with EDT
It was a joke.
...and then at the end...
they would turn you around and check you to see if you weren't sick.
And they did that over there in Mexico or they did it here?
-Arriving here? -Yeah, in the center
In the center, here, over in Mexicali
There's a place there...
There all of the contractors for the workers went there to...
...to bring back the people they needed,
the men are there like when you are selling a cow there for your liking, there they made…
-There they... -Chose
The rings were filled with 100 people and then toon, toon, toon.
There's one, they'd pass another and whoever followed
And when they made the contracts did they tell you...
No, the job will consist of this or we’re going to give you this...
or we’ll give you a place to live’ or what did they tell you?
-No, no. -Oh, they didn’t tell you anything?
They didn’t tell us anything, just that they would contract us for here
We’d be assigned to one place and there was a cafeteria
if not, afterwards they would say ‘you guys will be living in such and such place
...and you have to pay for your own lunch to make your own meals
But that was here, over there they didn’t tell you anything.
So you guys came blindly, you didn’t know what to expect.
No we didn’t know, not even in what we would end up or anything.
And when…when you said you came
to be receive you here the first time, do you remember what the trip was like?
I’ll tell you, we came on a train, nine hundred men
and I think that 50 of them were lost because
...they would yell out ‘don’t be a stupid oaf' they would take them
like pigs to the slaughter house and others well, I don't know
They got off and perhaps they stayed.
And all of us who got here there were 50 or 60 men missing
Did you come standing up or sitting down?
No we came sitting, all of us, after all it was a huge train.
It wasn’t a freight train or anything. No. It was a train.
How long did it take to get from the, where they sent you from Mexico?
That was lengthy because the train line didn’t work at that time
It took a long time to get there.
It lasted from Guadalajara to Mexicali. Sometimes it took 3 or 4 days.
It worked a little then they said no, we’re going to wait because
such and such part broke and they're fixing it.
So you came prepared with rations, like food, water or did they give them to you?
They gave us. They had everything on the train
After they contracted us and everything they gave us to eat on their own.
Here too, afterwards they just said ‘you’ll have a cafeteria here’...
They just charged us 1.50 per, for each individual for food for the day.
A peso and 50 cents or a dollar and 50 cents?
No, yeah, a peso, a dollar, a dollar and a half.
And per hour, we worked per hour and they paid us 72 cents an hour.
-The first time you came here? -No all the times
Yeah. Here it was still a lemon grove when I fixed my papers
they paid us per hour
Then there wasn’t anything to pick and they took us to pick tomatoes
...or no, well per hour, they paid us 72 per hour.
And do you remember where you crossed? Where you crossed the border on the train?
The border?
No, the train just went to Mexicali
But you’re talking about from there to here?
Well the honest truth is no, because...
Sometimes they contracted us in Einapuato
and I think we took a different route
And other times when they contracted us in Gaudalajara
We needed to take yet another route.
Well, it’s very distinct to know, to have someone know about that.
And speaking about the center where you said that the contractor went to pick you up...
You say was in Mexicali, do you remember what it was like? Was it a big room?
No, they were, what do you call it?
I don’t know, but they were big halls
and there, because I don’t know how, but they even brought women.
-Yeah? -Yes
You remember seeing women?
Yeah, because when we started the, the registration
They took us to register to see if we weren’t sick or that we weren’t pigeon toed
Well a lot of men entered and there was one department for men and another for women.
Or they didn’t come contracted; I don’t know, in any case, there were men and women...
But not together! Each person came
For example, if they brought 6 cars of men on the train, they brought 2, 3 cars of women.
So you remember seeing women, but not many?
Do you remember if they gave you vaccinations other than...
Yeah, they vaccinated you
They vaccinated another and they vaccinated and they covered you with dirt with the hose.
They covered you with dirt?
Yeah, well with the EDT powder.
They didn't make us take our underwhere off but they still told us ‘take off your underwear’
And then with the bomb they’d go foosh, foosh, foosh, foosh.
-No, they were mocking us. -It was a humiliation
...with the interest of coming and earning something.
And no one, like they didn’t get upset by it or….or refused to have that done to them?
Who would you expect?
Well you were already all the way here huh?
No, well yeah people got upset and everything and they’d grab you and throw you out.
So yeah
Did you have the option when...
...after you had your medical exam and they gave you your job permit...
Did you at one point have the option to choose the type of job you wanted or...
or how long you wanted the job to last or how much you wanted to get paid?
No, no, nothing. You had to do what they told you, eat what they gave you and stuff.
You only paid attention to how much they scrawled for you.
You looked to see if they paid you, how much they paid, if everyone was equal.
Yeah, so working by contract right?
Because supposedly it's the work of each person,
Because there are quick hands and there are clumsy hands
So per hour, they paid us per hour equally regardless of the job.
In regards to the place where you were headed, where they would send you to work,
Did you get a say or they sent you where they sent you?
No, they just chose you and they brought you over by dawn, [incomprehensible]
And there they told you what you’d do or you’re going to do this and that. Yeah.
Just what they said. Do you remember if they allowed you to bring personal items?
Like what?
Like I don’t know. Your own clothes, your...
I don’t know if you had a radio or if you had something that you wanted to bring
Family pictures or something like that?
Oh, that people would take?...Well, that yeah.
-You could take it? -Yeah
Yeah you could take a radio, or whatever you wanted
They would just say later on that they would take them away, especially in Mexico
Here we could use it but then getting hillside over there, it was different.
So yeah you can take it out but on account of money.
And when you came over the first time, when they gave you your exam the physical exam...
Did they gave you a work permit?
Or did they just give an authorization to work with a certain contractor for that time?
No, from when they pick you out at the center you were contracted for 6 months, 7 months.
So it was permission for 6 months?
I even got a contract in the center for [incomprehensible]
For 45 days.
I didn’t even make enough for, not even to eat.
From there I came back again to the Escobedo connection
To get signed up again and I came and I was assigned here in Simi.
There we worker per hour, 72 cents per hour but we still worked 8 or 9 hours
But for the most part we worked per hours there.
Through the contract it was oranges, lemon, it was what was available through the contract
Tomato too
How many years did you officially work as a Bracero in the United States?
Do you remember what years?
I don’t remember any more.
When was…what year did you come for the first time?
-In 44. -In 44
Anaheim. And in 45 at San Dimas
Then in 46 I came a little ways from Santa Barbara to a small town named San Marcos.
Then I went to Watsonville
That’s just from what I remember, another time I went to Yoluc, close to Stockton.
[Incomprehensible] Well, of all sorts. Well that’s just the places I remember, but yeah.
And, where did you work the longest?
There in, where I just told you right now, Joluc, I worker there 9 months.
And that was in 46 also or was it…
In forty-…
In 46 you came to San Marcos then you went to Watsonville. In the same year or?
No, in a different year. Just each year, each year
For me, my mind, I don’t remember anymore since I came here some many times
They also asked me when I retired...
If I only came over through contract or if I ever came illegally and I said 'Yes 4 times'
And how many times have you been deported? None.
They never caught me, it was no big deal, but they never caught me. I left of my own free will
And when you crossed illegally was it because your contract was up and you had to leave?
Well yeah, it was after
But did you go all the way to Michoacán and then go back or?
Yup, yup. No well, people came back whenever they wanted to
The thing with the contracts is you just came when someone needed you, where the contract would be
Where the contracts would be
Then when it was over, they said they were all over so that’s why I burned my papers...
...because they said there were no more contracts they were over!
So why do I want this now?
there in the center they even gave me, they gave me my social security number...
...and they gave me a green card and I burned that too.
I burned everything. Well why would I want this? It was over.
In what in what year did they tell you it was over? Do you remember?
Well the honest truth is no, I don’t remember, but...
I don’t know, I don’t remember.
And do you remember the first time you came illegally, in what year?
[incomprehensible] who knows if I can remember
What year was it?
It was like in...
'49, around there
And that time I came making sacrifices and...
I worked 7 months with a man, some guy who paid me 3 pesos each day
It benefitted me because the dollar rose
Over there it was worth 2 pesos, then really soon it rose to 4.80
and then to 6 who knows how much and after it rose to 8, and then it rose to 12!
And that’s when I bought my little cows and I put the guys to seed with [incomprehensible]
It's impossible for someone to remember so many things.
Llets return to where, when you were transported from the reception center...
...to the work places.
Did they provide a bus, did someone pick you up when they went for you in the center?
No. Well when they contracted us...
We paid our own fare, like us going from Morelia to the junction.
From the reception center?
-And then? -Or to, to Guanajuato
Or to Guadalajara too, we got contracted again in Zamora
No not in Zamora
Somewhere where there’s a lot of oranges, avocado, that’s from Morelia, that way...
-Europe? -In Europe
There we were signed again, but we only got signed there and went back home
And we had to pay our way to get to…
The center? The reception center? And then?
They got us there by the ones who signed us
And sometimes they would transport you in what?
On the buses.
Yeah, because about 30 to 60 men would get on, it was 2, 3 buses
And what did you pick in the majority of the farms?
Were they farms or ranches, what were they?
No well for example they were, like there, when I bought the house there, I was in San Dimas
in 45, there we harvested oranges, like the black ones, Naiwood and Valencia and lemons
Grapegruits too, the grapefruits were big.
The work was good, it was just that...
Well now that we’re talking about work, can you explain how, how you did the work or...
...and how many people worked at the same time?
For example, everything was done by teams of 30 men
That had a superintendent or two superintendants.
Because there’s always a superintendent and a helper
...and they took us around and it was there where they would give us 4 trees per row
Each individual, two in front and two over there
Well they had on the streets, fruit crates here, crates there...
And cars would pass, pick up from there, pick from here,
It was all combined over there.
It’s just that everything, everyone picked with scissors.
Everything with scissors? And a ring measure?
Yeah, the lemons, ranges no.oranges didn't have a measurment
Only the lemons because. Let’s say from number 6 to 8!
A first they’d give you a big one and then they’d give you a smaller one and that’s it.
Everything by size
And they didn't want us picking lemons because they were small in the stem
-I think it’s sharp then you pick the other -The other lemon
Then it rots they don’t have, they had a shell
The lemon, you just had to hit it on the shell
That was tiresome
Now no, now here, they yank the lemon. They even throw in the branches.
Can you tell me about other braceros that worked there with you...
Did you have a friendship that you remember, that you had a good friend?
No, well everyone had one that was friendly with everyone. It was brotherly
Then we’d see where we’d be, like I told you in San Marcos, next to Santa Barbara
There were like 200 men there
In one camp there would be huge barracks and we would all make our food
Each person would, you would join some 4 or 5 or 6 individuals
And between all of them, one would buy food for the week
...and then come eating time, one would make the tortillas others...
Others would make the food others washed dishes, and well everything in accordance
That’s friendship
-It was good. -Yeah?
You don’t remember someone you could he was my friend for that time or...
...or I got along really well with this person?
Well, I got along really well with everyone, thank God.
I didn’t have …
Enemies
Did the managers ever sign any illegals, while you worked through contracts?
No, that they didn’t. No illegals [incomprehensible] contracted workers
They were people like that, but they were apart
So when you were on a contract, it was all pure contracts?
Pure contract, just contracts in the camps where we were
No well there’s one, there's 3
3 camps, one was
Citrus, they call it...
Citrus
Lemons, oranges, I don’t even remember what they called the one for...
Radishes and all the vegetables, cabbage and everything I don’t know, that was another camp
And another for the lettuce cleaners and all of that, there’s 3 camps in one.
Three camps of people or of?
Of people
-Distinct. One camp was for... -All of those who worked in
And the other worked in something else, and the next on another thing
When you worked, did you have a lot of contact with your boss or his family
...or did you not even know them?
We didn't even know each other
The bosses knew we lived, everyone was a worker, the contractors too,
Since it was the company
God knows where the people from the companies live or who were the bosses
Yeah. Did the Mexican authorities ever go to where you worked?
That you know of? In any of the places where you worked?
Sometime, a few people would come and say they wanted to...
...see how people worked but no. We didn’t pay attention.
They’d just tell of the “Consulate” and who knows what
They’d visit but at times we didn’t even see them
They were just there to talk to the managers that they’d shortly gather us up.
They don’t let you rest. Even though you work by...
...through contract, don’t think that, they don’t let you stayed seated
Time is money, and if you didn’t want to work, then they’d give that spot to someone else.
Did immigration ever go to look over your documents?
Yes, that they did.
They’d show up in the fields where someone would be eating...
We’d be eating and they come 'let’s see your papers'
So you had to take you papers with you where ever you went?
Yeah. Those yes.
When immigration showed up what, no one got scared because they all had their papers?
Well, why would we be scared if we all had our papers?
-But did immigration ever mistreat you? -No
No the only thing they’d say was “mucho trabajo”
That was it
Did they talk to you in Spanish or English?
In Spanish and English, they spoke English and some spoke Spanish
Well, everyone who works for the government here speaks Spanish
When you were working here, how did you communicate with your family in Mexico?
-Well through letters -Through letters
-Is that when you learned how to write? -Yes
And those who didn’t know how to write?
They suffered
I told you that one day Matias asked me why I don’t read his letter from his wife
So I, I told him, I hardly know how to read.
I also… “Spell it out” they would say. It doesn't matter
But they told him really mean things and that was the only letter she sent him
And I just told him she says she's doing good and take care of yourself and all of that
She told him ‘you’re so dumb’, what you don't have hands?'
My brother and I were working together too and...
And Moises, the one from Tomatila, there were four of us there from the San Marcos block
They would say ‘you’re so dumb’. What you, you don’t have hands?
You send her your pathetic money; she’d say ‘since my brother sent this much in labor’
Yeah, how was I going to tell him that? I just, no well that everything, everything was good
After that I said ‘look for someone because I can’t, I don’t really understand your letter
She told him a lot of things and Salvador’s wife would say ‘she didn’t fool me the whole time
...from the beginning with the love that they had for eternity and you would know’.
How often would you see your family during the time that you worked as a Bracero?
Did you go every year, every two years or?
-Who -You
Every 6 months or 7 months or te-nine, according to what…
-According to how long the contract was for? -Yes
So if you came, for example let say in 44 when you started coming
and the contract lasted 6 months, you went back after those 6 months?
And you didn’t return until they…
Until there were contracts again when they said they were signing up
But I didn’t stop coming
Because a lot of people couldn’t come since they didn't have anyone to loan them money
I looked a lot for the first time and what was it? 150 I couldn’t raise that was loaned to me
And my mother-in-law, Macedonia got the money from the Marcelina women
And...
That’s how I came, if not, no. Because even my father-in-law told me, he couldn't help
Then what he did was...
After I came for the first time and went back, he wanted to fix up the little house I sold him there
I couldn’t afford it. It was very little money
so instead we just bought little things we needed in the house
...and I put away the money for when there were contracts and I came
And every year I would put some money aside to…
-To come over on your contract. -To not go around...
-Asking for loans -Yeah
Well yeah, because it’s a lot of work
Then they’d ask you what were you going to put down and what were you going to mortgage
Mortgage what? No.
You didn’t have anything to mortgage
Do you remember how many days a week you worked and how many hours per day?
Well, on average it was 8, 9 hours each day
Everyday from Monday to Sunday?
Sometimes there were a few Sundays too
They’d let us rest on Saturdays, we worked just half day on Saturdays
And then we’d get there, we’d eat and we’d bathe and they'd bring us the company car
It would bring us here to Santa Paula.
But that was when you were already here in Santa Paula, Was is the same...?
-It was the same wherever? -Yes
There in, now that you remind me, in San Marcos where the little camp was...
There was a little store, like the one that’s in the...
[Incomprehensible]... fix papers
-The pharmacy? -Yes
we’d go there, the ones who went would go buy something to eat
So there were day when we made tortillas and we’d make somehing to eat
So we’d just go over there and buy some tortillas as they got there in the afternoon.
Sometimes we wouldn’t get there in time
So it was like some 300 meters distance?
Yeah I think so.
So what was a normal day of work like? You left in the morning...
Did they pick you up or did they just take you in buses?
Here they did. And everywhere else too
They were contractors they’d go pick everyone up there in the camp where everyone slept
and every morning you’d have to be ready to go to work
Alright tell me a day as if you had to go to work. What did you do?
Wake up in the morning I’d make my coffee and eat breakfast or eat some bread
and wait because then we’d head out from here to the street.
You had to wait at the corner there. You already knew and they knew where they'd wait for them
From there we’d get it and go to work and when you got back, they dropped you off there
At work did they let you eat? Did they give you breaks or you didn't...
No, no. Well we were at the camp they would give us food there
But when you lived in like these big trailers you would have to make food there
Either way they would let us stay there.
We’d take showers, since there were bathrooms and everything in the trailers...
it’s just that the people, all the Mexicans were really…sloppy.
Why?
Because, some would go shower and leave a mess in the middle of the bathrooms
and then they’d get mad and wouldn’t let us use the bathrooms but they had reason.
-So they were really dirty? -Yes.
you know that we can all suffer for one persons mistakes
And so what,when they gave you food what did you eat?
Or when you made food, what did you make?
Well, whatever anyone wanted
You’d go and buy what...for example, you’d buy a piece of chicken
or a piece of, well everything you wanted to buy and then you cooked
-That was when you cooked your food? -Yeah
And when they gave you food, what did they…?
We ate what they gave us.
Like what kind of food did they give you?
They gave us soup then they’d give us potatoes or they'd change it now and then.
A piece of fish...
Did you think the food was relatively good or was it okay?
For me yes.
Everywhere you went or some places where you said ‘Oh no! This food isn’t good here’?
The only thing I didn’t like that they gave you in the morning, it was never in an oven
Because they gave us, well a lot of people liked it, but I didn’t like it
They had some stoves like the size of this one, except squared
There were 2, 3 on one side and 3 on another
Cracking an egg and just let it drop and they had one of those cans, for soup...
with oil and they’d stick like a brush with a cloth,
but it was smaller that way they wouldn’t drop egg shells
Turn it off turn it off! They’d say no, I don’t want it anymore. You eat them
I would just get myself 2 eggs, I cooked too
Did they give you food after you did all of your work? Or in the middle?
-They didn't give you a lunch hour? -No
So you only ate in the morning and then in the afternoon…until the evening?
No...they would give us lunch there
...they gave us a sandwich with beans and soup...
They’d only give you one in the afternoon, until you got home at night.
So in the afternoon it was what they provided or did you sometimes have to take lunch?
When you were in the fields them and when you were by yourself, you took your lunch
Two tacos with beans and whatever you wanted
And when they provided, did you think it was sufficient or was it too little?
No, it was sufficient because you'd finish it and then go ask for more and they’d give it to you
It was good.
When you say that you lived in the camps how did you live?
How many people were there? Did you have a bed?
Yes. You had a single bed, each individual just had his own bed
They were barracks, we’ll say that here there was, there was no room, just the walls
Like a hall?
There’d be a group here, another in the middle, and another around the edge
So it was pure beds and you couldn’t use the stoves, instead they…
But no, 6, like in the cafeteria
-You had a cafeteria for everyone? -Yes
-Was it another big hall? -Yeah
-So there you also had chairs and tables? -Yes
So in your rooms, could you have a chair or no? Just the bed?
No, just your little bed.
And your belongings? Where did you keep them?
Oh, I think we had a, no it was a chair, a little stool that was there
like a [incomprehensible] I could swear like …a stool, a little drawer
You’d stick your shoes in there and your clothes on top
For that did you have drainage bathrooms everywhere you went?
Or did you sometimes have to battle?
No, one time in Joluck, there they didn’t, it's very hot there...
and there wasn’t a heater hot water for the showers...
...and the water was really cold and we were obligated to take showers...
...but it was so hot!
And then...yes it was bad.
Also in some camp there, it was really bad because...
...there were showers but it was a big hall like the one here...
...and there were shower heads here and shower heads there and in the center too
I don’t remember very well, but one on one edge and another on the other
About 50 men would all enter in one blow.
But [incomprehensible] don’t think there was even a free spot!
And there weren’t any fights there? People didn’t fight?
Yeah just right there between the ones who were showering
There weren’t any guards outside to keep order or anything?
No, there was none of that.
So, whoever fought fought?
The ones who took care of the, those, what do you call them?
The country guys, there were two guys in the camp keeping watch over the people
They were there like managers
And how did you wash your clothes?
[Incomprehensible]
Or you didn’t wash them?
We had to wash them.
You don’t remember where you washed them? Or how you washed?
Well believe it or not when the trailers weren’t full of people like women, it was only men.
there were tubs in almost all the trailers, there in the trailers, we washed our clothes there
But in other places there were machines.
So there were places where there weren’t and you had to do it by hand in the tub?
And there are places where there were machines?
To wash for the ones who wanted and the ones who didn’t, no
And did you like washing them in the machines?
Better I washed them myself
because the machine,
You'd put your clothes in and they weren’t too dirty then others would see it working
...and put their clothes in and mine would get really ugly!
Better each person did their own if they could
Do you remember if your boss provided you with personal items like...
...a tooth brush, soap, towels, razors, blankets?
No. Everyone bought what they needed.
Everywhere you went? None of them said here’s a blanket’? No?
blankets yes, they gave us, they in the trailers they’d give us blankets
They changed our sheets every 8 days.
That was here in Santa Paula?
But other places no
If you had blankets, if not, then you’d have to buy them.
When they paid you, did they pay you in cash or in check?
-With che, every time in checks? -Yes
You say that the first time they paid you...
...or the majority of the time they paid you at 72 cents an hour
All the time they’d be paying the time that I was coming here, they paid all the time
There wasn’t anyone who instead would say ‘oh here they pay more?
There in Watsonville in the strawberries
There they paid us 90 cents an hour
And do you know why? I think we [incomprehensible]...
-The strawberry? -Yeah
-It kills it? -Yeah it kills it
[Incomprehensible] whatever it had in the middle
They continued paying us 90 cents an hour but working, picking was 72 cents an hour
So it didn’t matter what you worked, it was 72
It was the same to pick lemon, and pick oranges, strawberries, or anything at 72?
Yes, but no, not in oranges, lemons and grapefruit
Grapefruit was more laborious, it was per box
Actually oranges too, the Naywood paid you 8 cents a box.
[Incomprehensible]
And how many boxes did you pack an hour?
How many boxes did you make per hour?
I don’t know, the boxes were, the size of that red one over there look...
The thing was I had to make 100, 108, 116, 120...
...to earn 10 dollars.
Because if I did 100 over there it only got 8 pesos.
That's why when I was in San Dimas I bought the house
There was an uncle, Jesus Zizumbo, Natividad Ayala there were a lot like 14 from there
And out of all of them, Jenaro Rico it was Jenaro Uncle Jesus Uncle Cornelio, and...
Natividad, they were people who didn’t even make enough to eat
It was climbing ladders, up and down, they yelled ladders.
They climed up there to cut, they hardly picked
They didn't even earn enough to eat.
No it’s laborious and it was per box
And form the boxes of lemon, they didn't pay us if they wasn't any lemon
And form the boxes of grapefruit they paid 3 cents per box
Cheap
-Yeah! it got full with 5, 6. -Grapefruits
Yeah but we needed to fix them so they wouldn't get smooshed it was arduous
What did you do with the money you earned?
I sent it home
You sent all your money?
No, I had to leave, for example when they gave us food in the cafeteria...
Whatever they paid you could send back whatever you wanted
It could cost some 5 pesos for 1 person, for a drink or something
Others have nothing left because they paid it
But you had to send whatever you could gather.
And you saved your money here or better yet you sent it to your wife so she could save it?
Well I sent my money but I saved 5 and 5, when I went I took something
What if I get there and there's nothing?
Everyone had to use their head
I couldn’t even tell another the theater, well everyone is free to do what they want
So you can say all of the Braceros earned the same expect when they were paid per hour?
Because when they paid you through contract it depended.
Did you ever have any problems receiving pay, that they didn’t want to pay you?
No, they paid us every time
Yeah? There wasn’t a time when you had to fight?
No, like over there in Mexico where we were on the road going in circles charging
Here no, here the day of...for example the 15th day or each week...
I received a paycheck, everyone paid all the time, here there weren’t things like that.
Do you remember if you always got the correct pay for the hours worked...
...or did you once say ‘I worked more hours and they didn’t pay them’?
[incomprehensible] to pay
Did they ever take money out of your salary?
That, we didn’t even notice
That they worked in already, how much they would take out
That’s why the ones who charged money who contracted us would take money from you
But you didn’t notice it
They would just give it to you. What they gave you they didn’t have to tax or anything
But did they ever say they were going take money so that they could...
...protect it from the government?
No, that they didn't they never told us
So how do you know?
How was it? How was I?
How do you know they were taking money from you?
I didn’t say they were taking money from us
You just said!
Well the people said! But I didn’t pay attention to anything
Because, I didn’t even notice that they’d tell me they’d continue paying when I went to Mexico
That I’d continue paying, that...
Security right?
No Medicaid...
One thing I continued paying, they lowered it 5 pesos
What did they lower 5 pesos?
The check, to pay. I don’t know about security, or of who knows what they called it
Was it for your pension or what?
Well, I don’t know
Did you ever have a problem at work?
No...like what?
Well, like you’d fight with your boss
Well why?
What would happen in the case of an accident or an illness?
If someone was sick?
Well that...
Chana was already here when in the trailers there were 10, 12 people there resting
Because they would fall because one would go to the room and pretend to fall
...and they’d give you money for that separately...
and then others came along, even the in-laws
...were ecomplaining that they fell and who knows what else...
And Nicolas was also in fights, there were a lot of people...
...and I, who really fell didn't even tell them.
Did you fall while working? Did you fall...
I tripped on a sprinkler head that was in the grass
There was a lot of grass and how was I going to notice the sprinkler when [incomprehensible]
But I didn’t even realize I could complain so they could pay me for it
When I did realize, why now?
But was that fall during the time you were working as a bracero or was that after?
He was contracted with the packinghouse, in the lemon groves almost getting out of here.
And...
What were the most common complaints? Of food, accommodations...
...bosses or wages?
Why did the people complain?
Well the honest truth is I don’t know about any of that.
You never heard the workers complain about the way they were treated...
or about the contracts?
Well...
The only thing was if they misbehaved they were scolded.
But who scolded them?
Well the foreman.
I told you that they would always be asking me to give Anastasio
...and Salvador advice
because they were dirty, misbehaved.
Why me?
You should say if you don't understand he said, they're dumb, they don't get it
But that’s their business
What did you want me to tell them?
During the time you were contracted here
did anyone ever get sick or did anyone die while they were working
...or they’d be sick but they didn’t pay attention to it?
No
I never took notice when I didn’t live there
And it happens that Chanas company, her man died in the sea
They called it the sea because it had a lot of turns in the middle of Ventura and Oxnard
And he died, but it was, it wasn't because of an illness?
Of his heart
A drunk
[Incomprehensible]
[Incomprehensible]
And they buried him there in Santa Clara.
[Incomprehensible]
And...
What could you do if you didn’t like the job?
Who?
The workers like you, could you do anything if you didn’t like your job?
Well the only thing you could do, a lot of people did who didn’t earn money
...they left for somewhere else and got out
Everywhere I was contracted, they never told my anything nor did I have problems with them
Yeah I had all of my contracts signed and everything, it was too bad I burned them all
That’s why when I retired here they said, you could have had a lot of money
But you don’t have any proof of anything. I said well no
Why did you burn them?...Why would I want them?
They said it was all over so what?
If I knew they would be useful to me I would’ve not burned them
Did you at one point feel discriminated against?
No, thank God that I worked really well
But not even by your coworkers?
Well none of that was of interest to me
[Incomprehensible] that they robbed me ex amount of boxes and who knows what else
That time that we were in San Marcos, there was [incomprehensible] who would tell me...
...He beat me at filling boxes, picking box fulls
I said I don’t know I had my count and everything then the day we’d get checks
“Those sons of…! They stole this much from me
If I pick more than you so why are you getting paid more than me?
I didn’t know anything about that I didn’t even know how many I picked
I just grabbed what they gave me
If they robbed you, they robbed you, I never had to say anything to them
Did any of your colleagues ever try to stage a labor protest?
What is that?
Like a strike or something like that when you were working as braceros?
For their contracts? Someone that told you we should demand that they treat us better or?
No, no there weren’t people like the ones from now
Now there are a lot of strikers
and because of that I didn’t like it here, better that I retired I didn’t think I would retire so soon
But they didn’t let us work
All of these "Chavezts" wanted them to pay us better wages and everything
and we were better off as it was with the company because
you could pick your oranges to make some juice
Or avocados 2,3 avocados then afterwards they didn’t let you pick anything
After that they took our bags when we were leaving in the evening.
Was that when the Cesar Chavez strike was happening?
From then on the whole thing stopped working.
And what about your pastime? What did you do on your days off?
Nothing... Sundays well nothing
you’d wash your clothes
And in the trailers there was a big salon with two billiards tables
and whoever knew how to play would go play for money there
But when there wasn’t anyone there we would go play just for fun
...because money, I never like playing for money
And were you free to come and go as you pleased on days off or were you restricted?
...go wherever you wanted.
Did they provide transportation?
No, well from there the [incomprehensible] would take us wherever we paid them to
Did you and your coworkers play any sports or watch movies?
No, none of that. We hardly had any televisions
-Did you have radios? -Yeah you had a little radio.
And were there any Spanish radio stations? -Yes
Was there only 1 or where there more than 1? -No there were more
-Where was the nearest town? -Where?
Like the different places had towns near them, or how did you get to the towns?
They took us
Everywhere you stayed they drove you or?
No, in some places they’d say if you want to go, like Sundays
...if you want to go to the town and buy something...
the cars from work would take you
Some 2, 3 hours y you would have to be ready.
And if they didn’t take you, how would you get there?
We wouldn’t go
-You wouldn’t go if they didn’t take you? -No but what would we go for?
-There was nothing to go in -There was nothing to go in, we didn’t know
You went when there was a need to go
Then in the middle of a contract people would start buying little things to take back...
Their bag to carry their stuff in and when they took us would but one of those
Was there a Catholic church near where you worked? Did you go to mass?
They were in the towns
In every town you went to, did you attend mass or?
-Mass -Mass? There wasn't a church in every town?
-Hardly any -No?
Where it was really bad was Oxnard
It was about 2 kilometers to get to the town
But we went in groups of 3 or 4 individuals we’d go by the edge of the highway.
Did you go to church here in Santa Paula too?
No
You never when to church while you were working here?
No
If you were here during Easter week and Christmas
Where you ever here during Easter week or Christmas to celebrate it here or no?
Nothing gets celebrated here. There is no Easter week here, so we were working
Christmas neither? Or did you not have to work here during Christmas?
No, I hardly ever had to work Christmas here I spent it in Mexic
So you say that nothing is celebrated here, not even September 16th?
You didn’t do anything for the 16th of September just like workers?
Nothing
Your life after working as a bracero...
Did you go back to Mexico when you finished your work contract?
When you returned...
Did your boss provide you with transportation back or you went back however you could?
However you could. And you got here however you could too
At the end of the contract, when it was over each person was free to leave or
Or did the offer a new contract?
No you finished that contract and then if you were called you got contracted if not then no
After finishing a work contract, how difficult was it to get another new contract that same year?
In the same year no
-No? -No
It’s just that what happened was...you know what?
For example they would get a contract for 6 months
And then they’d tell a worker if they wanted to renew their contract...
They would give them another 6
Because here some people stayed for 18 months, 3 contracts for 6 months
And they were the ones who made more money, some did and some didn’t.
From there [incomprehensible] the only one I remember who did 18 months was Simon
And he didn’t have, he didn’t find anywhere to live
And he was a good picker, but that payday
That’s what they say that here, here in Santa Paula there was a bar..
There's the [Incomprehensible] on this side there was a bar and the other a theater
We went to the theater and there was a bar there
They only saw that [incomprehensible]
It was number 14, there’s 14, 14 arrived and shut the door and paid for everything
There went his entire check
I don’t know, pleasure is pleasure
There was this man who was a really good worker and he earned good money...
But what he did...
on Saturday is he would shower and get all ready and everything and he’d leave
[Incomprehensible] Satuday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday
...and he didn’t come back to work until Wednesday or Thursday.
And they would take him like that? The contractors took him back?
He was a good worker. What did he win though? He didn’t win anything.
So you could say that the good workers didn’t have much trouble renewing their contracts?
Yeah
Did they keep records of the workers or how did they know who the good workers were?
I think just by the work they did
What they did was they didn’t know how to save their money and that was it
If you worked in one place could you go back to the same place and work there the next year?
Or did they say you had to come back in…?
For example if I was working here and I already completed my contract
...If you want renew it! And you can continue working here. That's how it was.
They just give you…how would I explain it?
Like a form of a contract it was just a new one, the just put the date on it and that’s it.
So it was like an authorization for you to come back?
And when you crossed the border, did you just show immigration the contract?
From where you cross the border or what?
From there to here?
Or how did you have authorization to cross?
No, I didn’t renew any contract. No.I went back there.
I was even contracted there.
So they let you cross the border because you already had a contract there?
I already came signed up
Did you ever resign from a bracero work contract?
-What? -Did you ever resign any of your?…
That I didn’t like? No I finished my jobs all the time
I still remember that before I came here to Santa Paula I was in San Dimas
I went there in 46, but since then, since then I landed right here
...because they renewed my contract here, the one who came here was Jenaro Rico
And Cornelio, a son, you didn’t meet him or anything but...
Cornelio was my size
His dad Pancho Contreras lived there
That man was my grandpa's brother
He was also brother to the mother of...
Another man was that man's brother and my granfather's
and of Nicolas the “cartín” they called him
and of some other man named Seviriano Zizumbo who was the dad of Ms....
-Panchita de Cornel. Did you meet her? -Yes
He was also their brother
But it seems Cornel stayed here. They killed him in a bar here
And Jenaro, Jenaro left. They came from...
-From San Dimas -From San Dimas
They renewed their contracts and they were renewed for here. They sent him here
Jenaro you know, well he left
Did you become a United States citizen?
Did you become a United States citizen?
-Who? -You
Fsh, until the date [incomprehensible], why? No.
Okay we are going to talk a little bit about your life after you became a bracero.
What, after you worked as a bracero.
What does the term bracero mean to you?
What does what mean?
The term “bracero” when they call you bracero, what does bracero imply?
I did not know until I was speaking with a priest who said...
They were called braceros because they wander from place to place
Because he says, I went to confess.
And he asked how long has it been since you last confessed?
I said the honest truth is, I don’t remember
Well if no, then no
Why don’t you remember how long it’s been?
I said, I don’t know I can’t remember how much time I have
But well, with someone working outside of here, you have to travel much further for work...
Where do you go? All the way to the other side as a bracero
And he said, well that, that doesn’t have anything to do with anything
And he said I know everything about the United States
Everything up in the north, Sacramento, San Francisco and everything
And he said, people can confess anywhere or go to mass and everything
It’s just that a lot of times people say its not good because there are
different congregations that you don’t know
And he said, well if they don’t like that, then they don’t have to go
Some go to other and yeah
I told him yeah, but they don’t know. And he said, they know, they just pretend
I told him, no, no it’s not that they pretend, it's just that they really don't know.
He said, that’s not even far, he said, it's just here isn't it?
They are called braceros, because they roam from one place to another
but that doesn’t have to do with a bracero
But he told me in different ways, and I told him, well it’s fine
but you are very different. Why? Because you go there on business or you go for...
for vacation, or just for fun, but others don’t they go there out of necessity
To work, to maintain a family
He said yeah, you are right in that, but anyway don’t ever think because you're away....
...just to go from place to place
So that's why I thought it doesn’t mean anything to be called bracero
...just because I came to work as a bracero from one place to another. He told me.
And how to you feel when they call you Bracero?
Fine, what will I lose it or what?
Like I told you, if the priest hadn't told me that I will tell everyone what does it matter to you?
It's named bracero, he said because you are roaming from place to place
Whether it's to work, or for fun like you said
[Incomprehensible] Did you go to church?
I said the real truth, no. And why not?
Well because at times you don’t have a way of getting there
...or it’s too far from the town or the church
Well we just got into talking they were going to retire until he said, it’s getting late
Cross yourself and I will give bless you and that’s it
I was still with Trinidad and she was also 5, 6 people back from where I was
When I got home [incomprehensible]
I said why? Well why didn’t the priest take your confession? He already did!
So what were you doing in there? We were talking
In the end he just told me to cross myself because he was going to give me my blessing
He didn’t even, no work or anything, he didn’t take my confession
We were just talking. Everyone was talking about you and him, I don't owe them anything
[incomprehensible]
In general terms, your memories of having worked...
As a bracero, are they positive or negative?
What does negative or positive mean?
Well that they bring back good memories, or really bad ones
No, good ones, I worked for the enjoyment, with joy and pleasure and what else?
Did being a bracero change your life in any way?
No.
Well maybe economically it did change.
What?
Your life, having been a Bracero because if you hadn’t come over here,
perhaps you wouldn’t have had the same opportunities to
offer your family what you offered them
No, well I didn’t even have hopes.
I can assure you I wouldn’t have come here.
You think I’d be alive now?
Thank God because
Well yeah I suffered a lot because I was a Bracero many times.
I came here to work, I didn’t come here to sleep
now I stay asleep because I don’t need to wake up, but...
when we came contracted I would wake up at 3, 3:30 in morning
to make my coffee and make my lunch.
Then, I didn’t know how to make my lunch or anything. I did it by myself
I worked to my liking; I didn’t have a reason to complain
The only thing is what you said yeah. If I didn’t come perhaps I wouldn’t even be alive
What would I take care of my family with?
Yeah, I made a living here. Thank God if it wasn’t for here
I don’t complain. What can I say after all the work I did here?
I’d say it went well for not having anything, with hardly anything to sleep in.
Specifically speaking of Santa Paula, when was it that you came to Santa Paula?
Here?
Did you come through contract, illegally or…?
No, I was going, since I...how would you say it?
I fix my papers here in 67
In 67 or did you come with your residency? -Yeah.
Okay, very good. Well we will finish the interview with Mr. Porfirio Rico
...right here regarding the Bracero Program.