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TVP Teamspeak Q&A Seminar - 2012-06-03 - Mechanistic Concept (part 1)

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Hello, everybody and welcome to TVP Seminar for June 3d, 2012. Thanks for showing up, everyone. We're going to do a first section of a lecture that Jacque did, I don't know the date right now on mechanistic concept. We're going to do the first part this week and the next part next week. What is a mechanistic point of view? A mechanistic point of view, to me, I'm only describing my values, I don't know what it means to other people. It might mean disregard for free will, mechanistic. But mechanistic to me means that plants can't grow unless there's sunlight, nutrients, soil and temperature that the plant can grow under that human behavior is governed by the environment the human is raised in, and if they don't conform, they're asked to leave that environment or they're killed. Mechanistic means there's a reason why trees grow, plants grow there's a reason why nations fight wars, there's a reason why a guy breaks into your home and steals your television set. Not a reason, but many factors that produce that behavior. I do not believe it's the will of a person to steal from you. I believe that they cannot either have access to what you've got with ease. It takes a lot of pain, pain means work for three weeks or working for ten weeks to buy a small television set or a radio. If they see one on a shelf and it's near the window, it's easier to open your window and take your television set or go through the pain of three weeks and buying a chicken shit television set. Do you know what I mean? So their values are different then yours and if your values are "I will never take anything that doesn't belong to me, if you do you wind up in jail, sooner or later if you keep practicing that and that's much more painful than if you can think a little ahead, if you do things like that. But if you have enough conscience, meaning brought up with a conscience, if you take just a little bit of stuff from a grocery store, if you ever get caught, it goes on your record, and it interferes with your life in the future, so it's inefficient to steal food from a food market, because sooner of later, if you get away with two or three things, you'll be more apt to steal, so if you stay away from that behavior... I don't look at a criminal as bad, I look to him as a person that's dealing with his problems with insufficient tools. Do you understand that? So a mechanist just means that a tape recorder will not play, unless there's a battery in it. There's something that makes it turn. That an automobile without sensors on it can hit another car. That's what I mean by mechanistic. By mechanistic I mean if you don't like the world, what do you recommend to change it? And if it doesn't work, what do you do about it? Mechanistic means that all things are connected in some way, that things do not occur without been shoved. Like there were people always looking for the prime shover, so they made God, he's the guy that shoves everything. What shoves God? That became difficult for me. Like you turn the juice on, the electric generator goes on, but it won't go on unless there's a waterfall that turns the turbine. That's what I mean by mechanistic. So if a person behaves with socially offensive behaviors I believe there're reasons for it. Either damaged value system, brought up in a community that's predatory, I can't conceive of behavior that's just being generated without any causation. Do you understand that? So when a person says to me "Are you a mechanist?" I say "Let me tell you what I mean by mechanism, so it doesn't coincide with what they mean by it." So you always have to say what you mean by mechanistic. I can't picture this table moving from this position to another position, unless there's an earthquake or people moved it. "I guess that the table wanted to get over there." I can't do that. Or it's the will of Allah. There was a house in New York City where things used to fall of the shelf no matter how far the person put the books, things would fall, so they said there's poltergeist, do you know what that is? Evil people that died that come back and do nothing but mischief. Because they (?)were mischievous people. And later they found out, this was true by the way, that there was a stream of water under that house about twenty feet down, a natural stream with abrupt changes in the flow bubbles and it used to shake the house with a certain frequency, made those things fall off the shelf. But a person can grow up and say "there are many things we don't understand, therefore there are many mysteries." Just say "there's a lot of things we don't understand, I don't know why the books fell off the shelf" but they don't even know how to go about finding out how the books fall of the shelf. Do you know what sympathetic resonance means? Sometimes if you shake a table with water at different levels in the glass or if you pour water and hit the glass you get a different sound. You can make an musical instrument that way, but the glass doesn't make a different sound, it's the water level in the glass, but very few people look for causation, the phenomena that makes the thing happen. Now, if a bird pushes it's own young out of the nest, a bird lover says: "That's a terrible thing to do with your young baby birds" and she may turn against that robin that did that. But the robin does what it does due to it's own bodily chemistry, it's not a bad bird. Robins fly into windows that reflect another robin, are you familiar with that? And they die, they're killed, it's suicide, but they don't commit suicide, they see another male robin and that's the reaction to a male. Most bulls during the mating seasons will fight other bulls, that's a reaction they have. Is it good, is it bad? There's enough sex to go around, but the bull doesn't react to that, he has that chemotropism, chemical behavior. So again I repeat, by mechanistic I mean that a telephone pole cannot fall over. It can if it's leaning due to the wind, and then it rains and it gets loose and the center of gravity causes to go all the way, but I can't see the pole with will to fall over. I can't see human behavior as being generated by personality. Bodily chemical changes can cause you to become a serial killer, if the brain, several areas of the brain rot away, you know? Well they use terms like "You can't see the difference between right and wrong." There's no right and wrong, there's just human behavior. Whatever the person does is in balance with where they're coming from. If the Sioux Indians killed the Seminoles because the Seminoles once killed a lot of Sioux, are they bad? No, that's normal to their background, can you understand that? But if you say "These are the laws of wisdom, The Seven Laws Of Wisdom", I can't buy that. (?) I experienced this, you try it see if you get the same reaction, and if you do, you got to take care of the situation. So, those people that project mechanistic view points as inappropriate, they have to point out the shortcoming of it. What's wrong with it? What's wrong with the mechanistic view point? I find that if it doesn't rain for a long enough period, all the plants die. And if it gets cold in the tropics and it's sustained for some period, some plants will die. That's what I mean by mechanistic. Now, I don't know what other people mean, so when I meet a mechanist, I say "Do you mean there's no causality?" You know, I don't know what they mean by mechanist... I always say "What do you mean by that?" "I believe in social planning, by the rich." You know, that's not social planning, that's dictatorship. - Yes? - You don't use the word determinist... A determinist is also a mechanist. In the old days. But I don't know what it means to people today, so I'll ask them. "You're just a determinist", you know. Well in philosophy there's all different kinds of determinism. Yes, all kinds of views. Some are verifiable, some are not, but they don't know the difference, so if a guy takes a course in philosophy he's given what other people believed in the past, Schopenhauer, different people, you got all kinds of mixed up views, they try to put it together. The philosophy major really hurts himself, unless he studies customs of different cultures and the reason for it, the mechanisms that help shape those things. But don't you think some of the philosophers were pretty good, like maybe Heidegger and Nietzsche and those kind of guys? Some things. Knowing the difference is very difficult, knowing what to extract from what he calls a good book. You call a good book because what you extract from it was good for you. What he extracts from the same book, will be different. What she extracts will be different, depending on her background. We do not read the same books and come off with the same identical conclusions, similar conclusions, yes, but not identical. People argue about books. They say: "This was a great book", another person says "It thought it was terrible." It's like a movie, so, these are some of the tools that are needed out there. No one can ever get the right tools, they can get better tools than they had, but you never get the final tool, because it's an ongoing process, it becomes more refined with more information, it becomes modified a little. Can the human brain compete with a computer? That is not the question, how many bits can a computer can handle? If it's forty million a second, then the question is the brain can't handle that. It's not a question: "Can the human brain do better than a computer?" What can the computer do? It can react to heat, cold, temperatures that humans are not even aware of. There are very subtle differences in temperature all over this table. Machines can sense that, we can't, so are machines better than humans? In what area? And how many areas? Do you know what I'm talking about? If a person says "I think human vision is great", a guy with a telescope says "I can see the craters on the Moon, but with my eyes and the telescope, you can't." So is the telescope better for distant vision? Yes. And if you made a super telescope with radar, sonar and optical all of those things, it's far better than the human in bringing back more detail. But you can't ask the question, is Science and Technology better than other systems? In what area? Dietary problems? What are you talking about? The person usually doesn't have the backup for those statements. They say "Machines can't be better than the designer." The guy that designed the microscope cannot see bacteria, a microscope will enable him to see bacteria. Do you know what I mean? So the microscope is a better device for examining bacteria than the eye. That's shades of grey, that's real Semantics, because all of that has meaning and has a referent, because with a microscope I can see bacteria. With an electron microscope I can see atoms, without it, there's no existence. Or I can see things we call atoms, do you know what I mean? We don't know whether we're seeing atoms, maybe an atom itself has (?)crevices in it which we're not able to identify yet. So when a person says "Is there a solid way of looking at the Earth?" Remember, copper wire conducts electricity so it's a (?)hole to electricity where the air, electricity has difficulties going through, unless it's very damp or salty. So, there's a thing called a (?) and there's other things that could go right through the Earth as so the Earth did not exist. And the solidity of the Earth is not solid to that thing. So when a person says: "I believe the world is absolute, there's solids, liquids and gases." Well, there are certain things that can go through that like they're not solid, X-rays can go right through you and photograph you, so to a X-ray you're semi-transparent. But when you say: "What is the world really like?" That's a stupid question, it depends on what you're talking about. But there are gamma rays that make X-rays look weak, they go right through anything, rocks, anything and so, neutrinos, they believe they went down into a mine that's on mile deep and they measured the neutrinos coming down, so it goes right through the earth just like it wasn't there. So what's a solid, what's a liquid? It depends on our receptors. But if you try to find out what the Earth is absolutely really like, ​so called The Truth, that's a stupid word because it assumes that there's finality in things, some things are solid, some are liquid, some are gas... Liquid can become a gas if you heat it, and a solid can become a liquid if you melt it but if you (?)describe it at certain temperatures, Mercury is a solid, if you freeze it, Mercury doesn't move, Mercury becomes a block of metal if you freeze it, but if you put in normal atmosphere, it's a liquid, so the definition of a liquid, "something that flows". Well, does it say something that flows within ten minutes forty years? Do you know what I'm talking about? It's very hard to describe matter, so to neutrinos this table doesn't exist, right through it. If people lived in a neutrino world, their visions and concepts and laws would be very different than ours. So when you talk, if you lock your frame, say: "To me if I fall on this glass, I'm going to get cut" that's true, for you, so you try to find out the things that affect you. There are things, you don't even know there are gamma rays here, but if you sit in a room with X-rays it could be killing you and you can't feel it except later. Do you know you get cancer, whatever you call solids, liquids and gases, as long as you lock your frame. Do you know what that means, lock your frame? Say: "Right now I can float on water", but if you say: "What is water really like?" Well, that's a stupid question, under what conditions? At absolute zero or near absolute zero? You can walk on water, it's solid, you can ice skate on it. So if you lived in a world that is frozen, all of your objects, Mercury is a solid, water is a solid, there are no flows. So people from a different world or a different sense, different type of senses, will describe the world as their senses interpret it. So if you're looking for the right answers, you can only look for the right answers for you, in your environment, then you can look for the right answers, but right, wrong, good and bad interferes with scientific attitude, it interferes with knowledge, knowledge is cumulative and relative, it isn't absolute. Nothing is absolute, even when scientists say "This is what make the Earth turn. As far as we know, this is part of what makes the Earth turn." It's a very different world, it takes your world away from you, and people will fight it because they loose their identity. Your identity is I believe in God, I believe in miracles, if that's what you are and I try to take all that away from you, I leave you without identity. Your language is insufficient, it was designed hundreds of year ago, you say: "What the hell, who am I?" They think they're somebody that's fixed. They're somebody that undergoes modification, but if you raise people in a society with a fixed point of view and they don't undergo modification, with the passing of time. Can man make a horseless carriage, something that moves without horses? "Of course not." Well, you then you limited the development of that society. But if you bring up people to think whatever they want to think, you can't control them. So you try to condition them to a set of values that you know or you think you know. Otherwise you lose people if they all grew up to their own value system. That's why all nations try to condition their people to be loyal to that nation. The king is there to rule over you, you must respect the King and the Queen. Well in America, it's "God bless America", not "God bless everybody". I would imagine a minister would say "God bless everybody". I don't know that for sure, do you? Or do ministers say: "God bless Italy", if you're in Italy? - God bless their own religious followers... - Yes. - God bless their own congregation. - Yes. So, I have difficulty identifying with the present day world. I can identify more with the mechanistic point of view and using the methods of science, but not to search for truth, just saying: "This is what we know up to now." I find that better than saying: "I found the truth." The truth is everything which I can't say. "I found the truth", I can only say: "I found a better way of looking at this situation." Okay, we've reached the end of the recording. Since The Venus Project wishes to be in sync with nature, being one with nature, without harming the environment, how does it see the production of food through harming or killing animals? That's a question of morality. If you're brought up in an environment where you consider all life sacred. Do you kill mosquitoes, do you fight invading bacteria? It seems that people device systems to sustain their own life system, So sometimes in sustaining life you need to eat vegetables and you can eat animal tissue and convert that tissue to human tissue. So, it's very hard to say: "Don't take a life of even a bug, or an insect of any kind." Oh, well, I don't understand, when you eat plants you're taking plant life, when you eat animals you're taking animal life. According to Bose some plants are more sensitive than human beings, so I don't understand except that the culture you're brought in may give you a set of values that are not based upon physical evidence. Read "Response in the Living and Non-Living" by sir Jagadish Chandra Bose if you want a different point of view. I just want to make a comment on that. If you look at it in terms of how much resources it takes to feed an animal as opposed to eat an animal as opposed to raising plants, that might be a thing to consider as well, but then there has to be a lot of scientific research done on what the human body really needs... What can assimilate also... So, a lot of work has to be done before any final conclusions, but if you say "I don't believe in taking another life," I think you're clinging to an ideal that hasn't been verified yet. - He mentions here "being one with nature." - Well, you mean if you have an earthquake, you can help the earthquake? What do you mean by one with nature? Some people call themselves "nature lovers". Does that mean you like earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, tornadoes? All that's nature, rattle snakes is nature, there's lots of poisons in nature, sulfur dioxide from volcanic discharge is nature, so I don't believe that we like nature, we like certain things about nature, some things about nature we don't like, that's disease, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, so when a person says: "I'm a nature lover," I really don't know what they're talking about. Jacque, is it worth setting up an institute for Semantics which deals with Semantics as applied to social concern? - Yes, I'm interested in that. - But I don't know about "just an institute of Semantics" entirely, it would have to incorporate more than that. - It would have to incorporate social concern. - Yes, that's what he says, "as applied to social concern." Yes. In the seminar you say people's perceptions can differ on the same things, are you afraid that many of the people who currently follow The Venus Project, may have taken a different vision to that what you see? Yes, because we haven't set up a school yet to personify exactly what we mean. In other words we don't have the funding to make films to show people identical structures and how they work, so therefore everything you say is subject to interpretation, unfortunately, unless it's in chemistry, physics, mathematics. The scientific language is not as subject to interpretation as the everyday language which is mostly gibberish. What will TV will be like in a Resource-Based Economy? It will give you information as to what's new, what future prospects are, what we're running out of, what laboratories have developed, and they will tell you the state of nature as we understand it, not some opinion about anything, everything will be put to test and be verified to the best of our ability, and it will tell you that this is not the truth, this is what we found out under these conditions, have you any other suggestions? Next question, I will interpret a little bit just because of the English differences. How do you make people follow the procedural systems of The Venus Project without imposing it? You can't do that, in engineering you apply certain principles, in a tubular design you have to give the torsional strength, the compression strength, the tension strength, in other words engineers give you the specifications and what the metal contains cobalt, carbon, a certain amount of steel, and engineers always try to give you a descriptive point of view of the characteristics of the metal you're using. Chemists try to give you the structure of chemistry. They try to give you what they know about plants or what they know about materials. But when normal people talk about things, they don't go into that kind of detail. So it's subject to interpretation. Chemistry, physics, mathematics, engineering is not subject to interpretation, it's subject to methods and testing. Jacque do you still feel there are specific topics to be covered that you haven't yet gone into detail? Yes, there are many different subjects and many different explanations for much phenomena. There are books you can pick up which we have on the website, "Unusual phenomena", there's a book called Unusual phenomena, there's another book called "Curiosities in Nature and Medicine, which goes through all kinds of anomalies, so I would say the better informed you are in statistical data, the more accurate your predictions. Jacque, excluding experience because not all young people today can go through what you went through, how can you shortcut your way to developing mental skills which give you the tools to break things down during conversation just like you do? Well, not only in conversation but in reading a book you have to be able to decipher which is speculation, that which is verifiable, there's a lot of books that have a lot of gibberish in it, in fact 90% of the books, in fact 90% of what you read is opinionated and not based upon verifiable evidence, unless you're talking about a textbook or scientific book, of a book on metallurgy. You see scientific books tell you what they find out about things, when you read a novel, it really does nothing for you, except gives you a personal interpretation of the individual that wrote the book. What's the best way you have discovered to turn someone around from being a self interested individual, to one that is concerned with social interest? I find that very difficult to work out. Yes, it is, but there are certain things that give you gratification, and that's knowledge, the more knowledge you attain, the more understanding you have of the world around you, but if you study business administration, banking, poetry, art, you don't come off with real knowledge, you come off with abstractions. I'm just going try and redefine the question more, "What do you think is the best way way to discover, to turn, how do you turn someone around from being self interested to... By exposing them to the methods of scientists, how scientists arrive at view points, the type of work they have to do to find out whether something is hearsay or physical correlation with the world you live in. In other words, if you do a survey of what the carrying capacity of the Earth is, and maintain a population in accordance with the carrying capacity of the resources, that's the only system you can use to determine how many people can the Earth support, by doing a survey of available resources and if you produce more people than the environment support, you're going to have malnutrition, territorial disputes. They don't just come about out of nothing, they come about under certain conditions. In the transitional period, what do you propose to do with people who are in the prisons at that moment? In other words, it depends on what their profession is. If their in prison and they're an engineer, as long as they come out of prison and practice social engineering, applied engineering to benefit humanity they become serviceable, when they're in prison they don't do nothing of value. Prison is the worst form of cruelty you can impose on people. Police and prisons will be eliminated in the future, we'll deal with the problems that generate behavior that is socially offensive. We will eliminate the conditions that generate socially offensive behavior. Do the members of The Zeitgeist Movement still contact you and Jacque? No, they do not. Some of the people that come to the tours here, come because they had first seen The Venus Project on Peter's films but no we really don't hear from many of the members of The Zeitgeist Movement that we know of. Jacque, what books do you recommend reading? There's a book list on our website that's quite extensive but they're on all different topics, and I would say check that out. We have some DVD's on there as well on that list. Thank you. I got a question here from the audience. Jacque, it's the British Queen's Diamant Jubilee this week, what are your thoughts on this, if you can meet the Queen, what would you say to her? B.S. A queen is nothing, unless she increases the agricultural yield, finds ways of treating hearth disease, better methods of education, otherwise a queen is a nothing thing, so is a king. Okay, another question from the audience. Did you ever speak to Stuart Chase about your ideas of social change? I never met Stuart Chase, so I never spoke to him. Okay, a question from Dave (?). He wants to know if you, Jacque, still keep up to date with advances in science today. As best I can, and whenever I have the time, I read Scientific American or other magazines that have less projection in it, more information, I try to keep up with it as best I can. Would TVP would be more open to learning about open source? Well, it isn't open source, what it really means is, are people going to get the best advantage they can from a scientific government? If there's a government without money were you can't pay off politicians, where you don't follow a declaration of free business, or banks or lending institutions, would be far better, than the monetary system. We have to do away with the monetary system. The reason we have to do away with it, is if you put up a half a million dollars to get somebody elected to political office, they owe you a favor, do you understand? Money can pay people off. With the use of money you can sell drugs, prostitution, gambling. If you do away with money, there is no basis for selling drugs, there's no basis for buying anybody, a judge or a lawyer you can't hire people to do your bidding if no money exists. If your goal is to create TVP's version of a Resource-Based Economy, shouldn't The Venus Project have a very basic distribution algorithm for resources that exist at this moment? You don't need that, all you need to do is put up new cities, with the great technological advances that science is capable of, but you don't need to put everything out in the open, that means the system isn't completely (?), if you have to do that. The question was: "Shouldn't The Venus Project have an algorithm for other resources that are out there?" We're not really in that position. We do advocate having a survey at a certain time, when we have the ability to use all the resources and do something with them. Right now, it really is too premature. I would say that's fairly accurate. How do you convince people that the Resource-Based Economy isn't communism? Communism has armies and navies, prisons and police, social stratification and the use of money. As long as you have those things you cannot have a social system that's just for all people. Communism was also concerned with the working class and we want actually to bypass the need for a working class and automate as much as possible. Yes, to free people from obligation. When you work for a factory, the minute you punch the time clock you walk into a dictatorship. They don't ask you what you'd like to do, what you're interested in, they put you on an assignment, you either type of you're in a sales department, or manufacturing, where you operate machines. That is not a democracy, that is a dictatorship. All private industry, and all department stores or anybody you work for is a dictatorship, think about it. Okay, next question. Jacque what do you think about abortion? It isn't what I think about it, is what the people who want an abortion think about it. If they want an abortion they should be permitted to undergo that process. How do you interpret the situation in Greece? Is The Venus Project ready to purpose a new small government and take over? No, it won't be a take over. What will happen is if the system fails, people will look for other directions and they will select that direction based on their background. If it doesn't work (?) will fail until they come up with a system that does work. If enough people know about The Venus Project, yes, it will be voted in, but enough people not know about it just yet. Go ahead Roxanne. No, I was just questioning the use of being voted in, but I was just asking Jacque and he said it would be (?)and whatever method comes about, whether it's forced in, or voted in at the time enough people know about it. (?)If people don't know about it, it cannot occur. The Arab world removed their dictators, if they don't have an alternative system, it won't work out any better. Okay, next question. What specific question will Joel and Larry serve after you have passed away? Are they ready to talk about The Venus Project as adequately as you, Jacque? Well, they're still students. I would say, in time, yes, but they do have more information than the average person about The Venus Project. How they will use it? It depends on their interpretation and their background. So far, we don't have any schools set up to describe The Venus Project's working conditions, although we work as hard as we can to get that information out in the tours when people come out here, we try to give them specific information of how to attain a value system that will work. I think they are a lot of people out there who know a lot about this direction due to the information that we get out in lot of areas in books and videos and so they sometimes even they might know Jacque for many years, some of the people that went to the old lectures, it doesn't mean that they understand it as much of some of the people who were introduced to it recently. It just depends on their background. Stan, do you have a question? Yes, I have a question from my friend I would like to pass. If we got builders, suppliers, (?) and technologies, after the first city will be constructed, can be referred to that project in their advertisement, and would you consider to to give them advertisement space in the city after the city will be constructed? Are you talking about people that work on the city, would they have advertisement space? - No. - In the city afterwards. No advertising, no commercials. Would you see that true with the first city, if it's a city within the monetary system? Even the first city. Okay, thank you, that was a question about if how you can attract builders and manufacturers to donate materials and technologies for a first city construction, if they can use advertisement. No, no one that makes any contributions to The Venus Project dictates the policy. He's talking about would they have, say somebody donated a sewage system, could they say who donated it and what process it is? No. "The shape of things to come" by H.G. Wells is on your reading list. The book is about the predictions of the future made eighty years ago. Could you explain why you chose that book? I only picked that book to give people an idea of what H.G. Wells had in mind. But I don't recommend it as a solution, I recommend it as reading just to give you a different point of view than the one you've been brought up to believe in. Did you feel that H.G. Wells had good social commentary or social ideas? He had better social commentary than the people of his time did. And Edward Bellamy's "Looking Backward" had very good comparison to help people understand the benefits of a cooperative society as against a competitive society. Yes, that's true too because Bellamy's book has old technology, it's interesting to see his predictions even in technology at that time, but he did have interesting social commentary about how to solve things communally and his (?)fiction of what the world could look like to eliminate some of the problems we have. Yes, Edward Bellamy had a lot of good ideas, by reading that book you will have a different point of view than the one you get in school or university today. Okay, another question from the audience. If you do not wish to credit or reference the designer of the sewer system, how will anyone find who designed it? No, they don't concern themselves with who designed it... Are you talking about...? They concern themselves with how well the system works. No, they're talking about a transitional city, the first city in the monetary system. - Would you credit if companies gave or donated... - We can say that dr. Johnson's (?) treatment for cancer, dr. Benson suggests this treatment, another treatment. We present all the different concepts that have never been fully verified. Would that be true with products that people donate to enhance the city? No, you will know where...because the people that donate things to the city are donating existing concepts and you don't know for sure where those concepts came from. It may come from an underling in the city, it may come from a person that works for a company, but the company may present the idea as though it were their ideas. It's not necessarily that way, so we don't use that system, we use a different system. We say: "Here's a new way to filter water, there's several new ways for filtering water, there's several ways of converting salt water to drinking water, we present the methods and we do not present the institute that developed it, otherwise you have to present every bit of the way, every name of every person that was influenced by every other person and it becomes very cumbersome. Within the monetary system, if a company donates, say, their new lighting system or wherever that came from, you wouldn't want to mention the company that donated, Not at all. Do you think then the companies might not have the initiative to donate, if they don't get some names? No, they'll donate it. Yes, I would like actually to jump in here if possible. Sure. Usually, people ask how will one be convinced to give something basically for free, because this is the big question: how do we build the first city? What I always give as an example is like basically, the (?)son of an owner of a printing factory, I had actually a similar situation. I got the son involved, and he got so interested in The Venus Project that he got his dad involved and now when we talk about printing books such as "The Best That Money Can't Buy", it's very easy to talk to (?)the father, basically the owner of the company and say to him, what kind of price can you give us? And if he can't give us for free because the costs are too high, then he gives us the base costs, so basically, once you'll have some kind of a resource and you're convinced that this is the direction that you have to go to, you actually donate this resource because you believe in this direction because it's (?)like basically part of you, and yes, I think it's an example I like to give. And that's a good example. Yes. That's accurate. People donate their ability, their engineering ability, their knowledge of chemistry, their knowledge of social behavior, because they believe in the system, not because they want credit for it. Credit is automatically, when you see no war, no poverty, no starving people, that's enough reward for people that are sane, but if they want their name blasted across the system, only during the transition, you might name the source. The reason for it is so people can cross-question the source. If they have additional improvements they wish to make, they want to know who to contact to make those recommendations. - Go ahead. - If you don't understand that Tesla came with certain ideas, you contact Tesla if you want to know how those ideas work. You contact Tesla only for further information, not for credit. Question: "Algebra has been designed thousands of years ago and influences how we interpret reality. Do you believe there will be a major shift in scientific language, also so you have a team working on a language based on semantics?" Not yet, we do not have a team working on that yet. There are other things that have to be done first: teach the public about the scientific method and why is a closer method of understanding the world (?)we live in. (?) it's better than any other method at present. Do you believe there will be a major shift in scientific language? Yes, I do think there will be major shifts in scientific language. If The Venus Project gets the heads up for the experimental city before the major motion picture, would Jacque and Roxanne be willing to go forward with that? - Oh, yes, we would be willing to go forward. - Definitely, we are actually working towards that right now as well, we're talking to contractors and getting prices for architectural, final architectural drawings and engineering drawings and we may have somebody who will (?) a bill for that and that could be, you know, a million dollars or more, and then we will going to get the (?) from that, from the contracter and see what we can do, because we have had, I'm not exactly sure what, we never looked into that much, but we have had groups of people a couple of them who wanted to give us large sums of, or they wanted to see a proposal for the city and we need to have the financial breakdowns and we didn't, so we are trying to work on that, so we are working on both. And I think as people approached us before and asked us about if we could do the city and wanted to do the city, if we had enough funding to do the city, I don't think, you know, we could do the movie with some of those funds as well, we could work that in. Do you worry that (?) people that have significantly damaged by abusive institutions, could overwhelm Resource-Based Economy in its early stages? A Resource-Based Economy is really based on assignments. People are given different assignments, they don't do their own thing, so they can't go off the tracks. Jacque, what do you suggest that people do during this year's election? Do you suggest that they stay home, or talk to people about The Venus Project? Always talk to people about The Venus Project. Participating in the elections will not alter things. So, in other words, you suggest that people don't follow the votes? - Yes, that's exactly what I suggest. - That people don't bother to vote? - That they don't bother to vote. - Okay. It's not going to change anything if you vote. The same kind of people are selected that will uphold the social institutions that exist. I have another question here. What does Jacque think about other medium to introduce Resource-Based Economy other than videos like (?) comic books, computer games, music and so forth? Any method whatsoever that makes the information available is okay. We're all for all those mediums to introduce scientific method, Resource-Based Economy and The Venus Project. Rap sessions, rap music, anything that will help people understand it. Some systems are better than others, but use whatever system you're capable of using. Okay, here's another question. In a Resource-Based Economy who will get a home versus an apartment? Well, during the transition there will be problems. The first people that get homes and apartments are the planners, the people who can plan cities, plan food production, the people that are necessary to carry us through the transition. And that's people teaching other people about this direction as well, but I think the question, if I'm not mistaken was: "Who determines who gets a home as opposed to an apartment?" Was that the question, Joe? Who will get a home versus an apartment in a Resource-Based Economy? Not just necessarily the transition, but in The Venus Project itself? They don't get a home, they get a place to live, and the place to live is temporary, you don't own anything in The Venus Project, you're assigned different projects and you live near the project, and the ability to perform in that area is what determines where you live. I guess this question is: "What if more people want a home rather than an apartment, and who determines who gets those homes? During the transition your ability to perform in a given area determines where you live. You don't determine that during the transition, after the transition, things are different. How so? Well, as people learn different disciplines and they're assigned different tasks, if you're a pilot that flies commercial airliners, you fly commercial airliners. I think this is the question: "What if there are limited amount of homes?" Then there'll be (?)rationed by the ability of the people who occupy those homes, They'll function in relation to society. If they can grow food, prepare mass housing systems, they will function. The people that are (?) will go back to school to study mass housing systems, whatever is needed. You're talking about those who will be in a city.... People do not want the homes, they're assigned the homes by their ability to render service to society. If they can't render any particular service to society, they are not assigned a home in a given region. If your home is near mass production areas and your ability is in mass production and automation, you are given temporarily assigned that home in that region. What if some people were given an apartment but they want the home? Nobody is a given an apartment, they're assigned. If you don't know what that means, it means that people with the ability to function to live in a given area are assigned living place. I'd like to jump on here, please. Go ahead. When it comes to accommodation the one thing that people actually forget is actually the level, let's say, the standard of accommodation. If we compare a normal hostel, like an hotel, with just a room and with very badly equipped bathroom to a five or seven star hotel. Then if we ask a person: "Would you like to live in a (?)hostel, in an environment that is not very well equipped?" of course the person will refuse, but nobody, nobody at all has any problem with living in a five or seven star hotel. The point is that when you have actually all the equipment and all the accommodation parts, let's say (?) like in a house, or an apartment, you wouldn't actually mind living in one or the other, it's more of what, basically, the question is based on the current values. Yes, that's true. Today people want homes and to be isolated more so, but I think eventually more people will want to live in apartments, because they have more things in the apartments, they're very close to gymnasiums or restaurants right near by or anything they might want within the apartments because you can accommodate people more so. They would be soundproofed, would have very good accommodations and it would be more efficient to have people in apartments rather then homes... - Separate homes. - In separate homes, yes, that's not as efficient. I think as the standard of living is so high in the apartments, they would probably like that (?)better. Every apartment will have emergency medical services, dental services, shopping, access to resources. You don't have that in individual homes, you have to drive to the shopping center, you have to take your children to school. In the future, what we call "total enclosure systems" have schools, libraries, everything built in the apartment. So it's more advantageous to live in an apartment. It won't be a question of the people want individual homes, they won't want, they would want the maximum service they can get and the way you get that is by following the assignment system. We assign people different areas, depending on their background and their physical capabilities and their mental capabilities. It doesn't mean that they're assigned something lesser than other people. No, never. (?)What are you trying to ask is whether they'll be any kind of elitism. The answer is no, they'll be no technical elitism, or any kind of elitism. The people assigned projects will work harder than the average person. In regards to this concept of assigning people places to live and whatnot, brings up another question: "How much liberty will there be in The Venus Project as compared to a monetary system?" The liberty of The Venus Project with a deeper understanding of nature and human behavior, the reason for war, the reason for anger and hostility, they'd be so well informed that they would find a motion picture shot in out time as a horror movie. They would look back at our system as a horrible system to live in due to their newer education. And that's what happens to people who come here to the tour. They come one way and they walk out very different because we really have a chance to ask all kinds of questions and question motives and grammar and everything else, so really the best way to learn about The Venus Project is to either to get the book called "The Best That Money Can't Buy" or come to our tours if you can. It's not really a tour, it's a cerebral enema, where we clean out the old values. How do you suggest to engage people with this The Venus Project values and proposals who cannot attend the tour or who live in other countries and don't speak the language. how do you suggest to engage them in the process how to actually present them, how to better present them The Venus Project? Read the book The Best That Money Can't Buy, if you can't attend the sessions. How do you get people interested in The Venus Project I think he's saying... Read the book, The Best That Money Can't Buy. This person asks: "How can you say that there will be no elitism, when the designers of the resource distribution algorithm would have the most control? They don't have control, they're assigned projects, I said that many times. No one controls anything, they are assigned different tasks: If you want to build a bridge, you get bridge engineers together, if there're chemical problems making a composite material for building that doesn't (?) you bring construction engineers and material developers together. You bring people that are familiar with that field and that's not a privilege, it's hard work. The people who are building and designing, they don't have control of the resources and they don't allocate resources to different people or tell different people what they can do within the city. Yes. (?) You own a factory, you assign people tasks. In the airplane industry some people work on the landing gear, some people work on the wings, some people work on remote control systems, some people work on instruments. They're assigned those tasks by their background and their ability to perform. Not dictate policy, they merely carry out their assignment. Bridge engineers build bridges, tunnel engineers excavate tunnels, they don't tell people what to do. (?) has to be done. The survey committee says: In order to maintain fifty thousand people in the city, you have to have so much water, so much food available, so much air conditioning. That's determined by the amount of people, just like an ocean liner. If you have a thousand passengers on an ocean liner, who decides how much food to carry? The people that have worked on the ocean liner that know those problems. Who decides how many doctors and dentists you need? (?) The amount of people who complain about dental and medical problems. I'd like to add something. Sure, go ahead. The general idea behind people in charge in inverted commerce is that people generally think that whoever holds (?)system, the (?)problems, the algorithms etcetera are in charge. Now, if you actually look at a guy, or a man or a woman, or a man and a woman living in the forest with no other resources but the forest, they don't treat the forest or their system, their internal systems the way they've been built in a way that can be sabotaged by one another, let's say the man sabotaging the sewer system because he's angry at the woman, or the other way around. Once we reach in a Resource-Based Economy we look after the system because the system looks after us. Yes, that's true. It will be just like when you got mad at something and you want to cut of your arm because you got mad. Sane people don't do things like that. You wouldn't want to hurt anything in the environment. Well people are brought up under The Venus Project have a different outlook, completely different than the people of today. You're dealing with people with today's values. If you want to be an aeronautical engineer, you have to go to that environment, if you want to be a doctor, you have to go to a medical environment to become a doctor, then you have to pass tests. You have to immerse a person in an environment that deals with the subject they are assigned. So you don't have a person who studies animal behavior become a dentist, you have to be in a dental environment to become a dentist, you have to know (?)your dentistry. We don't have that, that's today you're talking about, people that get angry that won't perform as well, and would want to shoot people or damage the environment, we do all that in the school, we clean out all the old values that have no reference. People learn to read books differently than they do today, their behavior is different than it was in the past. They don't respect people like they do today, they respect your performance only. If the monetary system would collapse, how long will it take to get a Resource-Based Economy fully working? About three months. (?) motion pictures and control of the media. If you don't control the television, the newspapers, the magazines, you can't do it. With control of the media, about three months. How much of the centralized data will be made available to the public? Anything they wanted to know. They have a laptop and you can access any kind of information you want. So, is the distribution of data centralized or decentralized in a Resource-Based Economy? - Redundantly centralized. - Like, the Internet, redundantly centralized... Today, Washington doesn't know what's going on in Virginia or Florida. In the future, all information will be accessible and not verified, not varied to suit the mood of a person. Information will be available as the transportation or the agricultural yield is, what the climate changes may be, all information will be available to everybody, not any specialized group, but not, I don't think the average person would exercise the ability to find out whether aircraft landing gears have been improved, they would only access information they are interested in. Remember, the public doesn't concern itself with new techniques in agriculture, agronomists concern themselves with that. Information will be available to those who have the knowledge to understand the knowledge they're requesting. In The Venus Project, what will people be responsible for? They are assigned certain tasks, if they cannot function in that task, they would be immediately be replaced by people that can. Just like you do in industry today. If you hire a man to design a bridge and he doesn't know how to design a bridge, you get somebody that can. It isn't any different than today. If you want a person that designs shoes that don't wear out, he has to understand material sciences, he has to understand what makes wear, why things wear out. In other words if he doesn't understand that he can't be assigned the task. Anyone that can carry out function will be assigned the task, male or female, no matter what race they are. They will be given the assignment if they can carry it out. I have a question here from the audience. I believe I can answer it myself because I heard you give the answer once before. He wants to know if we're going to use new names in the cities and I believe, Jacque, your answer was that it will be assigned based on the longitude and latitude of the city, you said in the past that names such as Brazil or Sweden don't tell you anything about the certain location, but if we give it a longitude and latitude designation, that will clear out a lot of obscurities, is that correct? Yes, that's correct. Okay, here we got another one: "Jacque, are you afraid that the establishment will try to remove you or try to abolish the support system because you are the engine of that machine right now? They may do that and they have the power to do that, and they have the power to eliminate me or put me in jail, but they can't eliminate the ideas. They would like to control the Internet, they would like to control all sources of information to keep people subject to their values. That you got to consider. So they would delay whatever they can delay and control whatever they can control and eliminate whatever people they feel is a threat, but ultimately, if we won't operate that way, we can not operate at all. Jacque, what do you think about peak oil, whether it is useful to change the system? I think about energy, new sources of energy that do not pollute the environment, like geothermal, wave power, wind power, temperature differentials, all kinds of alternatives that don't run out. Geothermal has shown to have caused earthquakes in certain areas, I don't know if it's a verified fact, but I've heard of some situations (?)where geothermal can cause (?) or things like that in the Earth surface, so how do we deal with such a problem and if geothermal is not the only solution, I mean, there are other solutions for energy production but then, what are the solution for geothermal if that's the problem? The use of energy by a nation will also have a group that works on a negative and positive effects of different energy systems and the one we select will be based on the one that has the least negative effects. The survey committee tells us that. They do a survey on the benefits of any project and the negative effects of the same project and since they are no vested interest that means people don't own the oil fields, there's no tendency to perpetuate any particular energy system since there's no profit to be made. The last question, this person was a little bit confused about how you responded to housing, so he wants to know if the assignment of houses, apartments is given in relation to the task given to someone and if anyone needs a house or an apartment then everybody must have a task assigned to him or her, regardless of the motives, incentives, what if someone still doesn't want to perform any task at all, how does The Venus Project deal with the system, I guess how does The Venus Project determine where this person can or cannot live? In the beginning when we have to first city done, we cannot afford to take on people who just can't participate. That we hopefully we'll develop enough energy to take on later, but we see the first city as the planners, the developers, people who will make media, who will help introduce this direction in many different ways, the planners who will be making the next city more efficient. The first city we'll might have to build a lot with what we have instead of innovating new ideas because that might take longer, so, if people cannot function to do that, we with the first city, I'm sure would not have enough energy to take on people who cannot participate and help. (?)This question is probably about people live in certain place, not just assignment of it, but live in the same place they call home. As far as I understand, we're not going to have attachment to the particular place, we're not going to chose that house, how big it is, or neighborhood and stuff like that, we're going to find a way to participate in the task we are better suited and find a place we can live nearby, which can actually feed all our needs to (?)advance us in life and help us to participate in a certain task. - All that will be assigned. - No, (?)all the homes would be very comfortable and very sufficient for whatever needs people are. Okay, so that's the last two questions. Is there anything you'd like to say to the audience? Look up The Venus Project, there's a lot of answers on it. - is the website. - I think that most of the people have seen the website here, I assume, yes. Well, I guess that's about it for now, just thank you all for attending and we'll play the second half of that mechanistic point of view next week. - Thanks again. - Yes. Thank you, Jacque and Roxanne, and we'll see you next week, June 10th, 2012. Thank you for sharing your tools with us.

Video Details

Duration: 1 hour, 12 minutes and 19 seconds
Year: 2012
Country: United States
Language: English
Producer: The Venus Project
Director: The Venus Project
Views: 8
Posted by: ltiofficial on Feb 19, 2016

TVP Teamspeak Q&A Seminar - Mechanistic Concept (part 1) - 2012-06-03

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