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TVP Teamspeak Q&A Seminar - 2012-02-19 - Competent Democracy

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Hello, everyone, we appreciate you coming today. We're going to play a lecture called "A Competent Democracy". It will be about forty five minutes and then will take questions on that. (?) I will discuss Participatory Democracy because a lot of people have asked will we participate in The Venus Project? The designs of the cities would be agreed upon before we do anything. Whatever members (?)we have that's what we want build. The designers of the cities are qualified architects, (?) people that arrange the plants, (?) what plants supports other plants, that's their decision. So, the landscaping will be done by a land professional landscapers. Amateur landscapers may not be as good, may not be as good, unless the professional landscapers say "I like this nonprofessional landscaper and I would like him to go ahead and do what he wants to do. Do you understand? But the design of the cities would be handled by the architectural department. The chemistry department will tell them how many square feet they need to do work in plastics or metallurgy, I have nothing to do with that. So the buildings are all educational, agricultural, but the square feet for each zone has nothing to do with the public. We might as a plastics engineer, how many square feet you need, and what type of equipment you need to do a lot of studies in plastics, he says "I need at least a hundred and fifty by a hundred and fifty feet." Okay, they make that decision, not the public and the medical department we say "for a city of five thousand are there always five hundred people that are sick? what is the statistical data? I don't know, get the hospital (?) let's find out for a city of two million, what percentage gets sick. Say, ten percent, that's the size of your hospital, a little above that for what we call "national emergencies", like the spread of a new fever which is happening very fast. So we don't just build exactly in that hospital, we build more than enough, but they may be used temporarily for other purposes and then shifted as needed. Do you understand? So when the average person comes up and says "will I participate?" If you walked into a hospital and a surgeon has a certain type of light that's right on the operation and you notice something that is not good and you suggest it but don't suggest that during surgery. The public can go in and make suggestions and we must rely on the experts, although the public may be right in some instances, say, two times out of ten. But the expert may be right five times out of ten, so we have to say to the bridge designers "you guys design the bridge, this is how much traffic goes over." So, is it a participatory democracy? No, it's a competent democracy. Do you know what that means? If you find out let's say you believe in natural foods, organic foods, (?)they you'll feed people and keep a record of their health and resistance to disease on organic food. If the food is doctored up and it doesn't work, we'll say "this is what we've found." But if you only eat organic food, you can. And if you want to eat doctored food, you can, but there's no reason for doctors in the future to uphold organic or inorganic food, or whatever they believe in. There's no reason, no advantage. You don't make more money by selling tomatoes. So I would say since there is no vested interest, there tends to be no bias. Do you understand what I'm saying? I can't understand how bias can occur in a society that's out to make everybody operate at their optimal condition. Now, we have plastics that disintegrate and they poison some of the food in jars (?)and plastic containers. We have to do careful study, but if you're a container maker I don't always feel I can trust you. If you sell containers, you say "my container doesn't contaminate foods as much as the anti (?)." If they form an organization, they will do all the research that prove that containers contaminate food. And the other organization gives you the degree of contamination. Then we ask "does that little bit of contamination hurt people?" They say "we have to do another three month study and then we'll let you know." But whatever they come up with we have to go by, because the average person feels "I'm not eating natural food, I just don't feel right." It may be psychosomatic, may be real, we don't know, so we have to rely on competency. Like, you go to work for Ford Motor Company and you work in the valve department, there is a director, a guy that's worked around valves for twenty years. Is he perfect? No, but he would have more information than you would on valves, how they coat, how to get the (?) off the valves, he may, he may not if he doesn't have enough information, another guy moves up, but it's not a democracy where everybody puts their two cents in. It sounds good but isn't good for people. If you have trains and one train is very crowded, you have to have an exit for one train to the other. if one train is too crowded (?)people will go out in another train. You know? But I don't see any reason for participatory democracy if you have no vested interest. I would say today we get an estimate from a plumbing company to do plumbing in a new apartment. We don't get an estimate from people in general, they come over and they tell us "it will cost you four thousand dollars". Only in the future they'll tell us the plumbing needed for forty families. I don't know exactly, they know more about it than I do. So, it never is a participatory democracy, so, if you think about it, when you go and select an automobile, if there's a digest that tells you the miles per gallon and all that, it may be payed off, it may be vested interest, but it it's a magazine that gives you performance of a flashlight or whatever it is without vested interest. Do yo know what that means? They don't get money for batteries sold or anything. So I see a group of people better than one person of competency where they say "we don't know yet, we have to do more studies to that battery." That's okay with me, and it's okay to tell society "when will we have access to television?" "I'll ask the producers and manufacturers of automated equipment 'how long do you think it will take to make television (?) that's available to forty thousand people?" They say "well, from our experience it will take about three months." - Would you say three months and three weeks for sure? - Oh, yes." Their estimates are better than the average person. I can't see a non-trained person trained in any area to participate, not that it wouldn't work. Oh, yes. Don't you feel that in the future when the city is up and running and people, as times goes on, people will have the fundamental knowledge (?) I don't think though you'd have all the people doing that, there would be only a very few people in hydroponics. Like the Japanese found out they can increase the seafood by eighty percent if they use strings under the salt water so crustaceans can cling to the strings rather than the rocks. So we'll look up "oriental ways of growing fish" and they will train as many people as they estimate are needed to feed six million people. I can't do that. Now is that perfect? No, it's just a lot better than everybody participating, so when people ask me, "- Will I participate? - Alright, do you want to go ahead and build bridges? - Well, I don't know anything about bridges. - Then you can't participate. Do you want to design electrical stuff for apartment houses? - No, it's not my field. - Well, what are you trained in? - Crib making. - Are you trained in artistic crib making or functional crib making?" Do you know what I mean about that? There are artists that design a little rock of a baby with a (?) over it, all that was okay during this system. But in the future babies are restricted in the crib, they don't have the range of motion. And like Kenneth Keyes was paraplegic, he couldn't move, very little movement, so he made his bed do this and that, so if he wanted to turn over, he'd press a button with his elbow and that would rotate him over. He didn't designed the bed, he gave it to an engineering firm. He said "I want a bed that tilts and rocks and I want to be able to control it going to the left or right," but it was hard for him to get up and go to the washroom. So if you put a (?)core up in the middle of the bed, he can piss, in the core. Do you know what I mean? But that would be special design competency. You meet the person you say "what can you do?" He says "I can't move my arms or my legs". "Can you move your head? Yes. Well can you work a button with your nose or your chin? No." So the competency engineers will design a bed for your limitations, but you have to tell them what you want. You need to be able to drink water when you want to, so you need a water dispenser, (?) you can't get up and fill a glass with water. You have to tell them your limitations and to the extent that you succeed in telling them your limitations, I would say they would have no reason to want to give you a smaller glass than you need, unless there's something wrong with them. Do you understand what I mean by that? Unless a guy says "hey, (?)" and the (?) says "I would like a big glass of water. Well you're going to get what I give you." You won't have that, because there's no reason for it. and you don't rely on one person, there's always a group of people and they try to meet your needs. Will they always meet your needs perfectly? No. But they'll do a hell of a lot better than nobody with lack of competence. So when I mean competence, to go to work for an auto company, they give you a competence test. What do you do when the smoke comes out of the exhaust? That means that the valves are leaking. If you have the right answer you're in the competency team, but if a person says "Goddamn it, I'm competent", but if they don't pass the competency test, it may be poor, it may be badly designed, can you improve it? I know nothing other than a competency test. If you, if a guy does surgery, and he has eighty percent success, then another surgeon has twenty percent success, you can't afford to go to the guy who has eighty percent success, but the eighty percent success surgeon in The Venus Project will become an instructor. And if he can't instruct, we'll photograph how he works, how his surgery differs from others and we'll show that to other surgeons and they'll say "Gee, I see that now why he's so successful", but if he keeps it to himself, he has a higher clientele. Do you understand that? Why should the doctor give their competence out freely? Because they can make more money, by maintaining their surgical skills, or other skills that are not shared. So I see this system as a system that tends not to share skills, if you agree with me. Like a person that says to me "Suppose I (?)wanted to participate", you say "what do you suggest to make a searchlight, a flashlight, lighter, better, longer lasting?" He says "I can't do that". (?)I say "Then you're not competent in that area". Tell me where you feel you're competent. "- Well, feel I'm competent in raising children. - Well, what does that mean, feeding them, teaching them, are you an educator?" We want to know what competency. Is that alright? Well, if you taught for twenty seven years and a another person taught for three years, you may be not as good, so we would have to check out how your kids work. If you're teaching a guy how to service auto engines and the failure rate is sixty percent, the competency is taken away in that area, unless they go back to school. Is that alright? I don't know of any other method. What do you think of that method of competency testing? - So far it's...? - Yes, it should be standard, yes... If (?)the things being set up, normal people are inclined to install a democratic process which they would vote me out. Do you understand that? Because they're brought up in a democracy and I have all those problems to deal with that people want to participate but don't know what competency means. So we have to have (?)world lectures before we build our first city, we have to talk about a lot of things and get them squared away and if you can agree with competency testing as the only means we have today, then we can start, but if nobody agrees with that direction, they want a participatory democracy, I'll be voted out and it will work sometimes and sometimes it won't. Do you understand? I can't get up and say "from now on, we'll make the decisions for you." The decision making system that I have is one that was arrived at, not some petty fluke of my own interest. I don't know how else to do it to people I can't convince. I say "why don't you try your system outside the city to see if it works? We can have an experimental city where different systems are tried." Now, the people that try systems try to do research to show that their system is best. Do you know what that means? Bias research? And so you have to have a (?) that has (?)no vested interest in research and examines their system and points out the limitations. Now the non-professional will not agree with the professional. You understand that? That's the world you live in. A girl says "Regardless if there's a god or not, I still want to get married. I feel more comfortable with a priest." Well, if that's what she wants, she can do that, but we don't have divorce and marriage in our system. If you don't get along with somebody, you don't have to go to a marriage counselor if you don't want to live with them. You move out. Will they be hurt? Yes, they may even want to kill you for deserting them. If you feel you had enough of a certain person, a girl that you've married, later on you say "I had enough of that girl", you both don't always want equally want to leave at the same time and if you want to leave her before she feels, she still loves you, "why do you want to leave me for?" she will feel depressed and need help, but in a society (?)where you train people to the fact that we seek people that meet our needs, and if we find one person that meets our needs, you stay with that person, if they don't meet your needs, you're going to want to leave, no matter how nice the person is. That has nothing to do with their niceness, if they don't meet your needs. I asked some (?)gangster years ago, "you're married and you have a very beautiful wife, why do you go to whorehouse?" I asked him. And here's what the guy told me: "because I like a blowjob, I can't ask the mother of my children to blow me." This guy was brought up that way. Do you know what I mean? "How can I ask the mother of my children to blow me? If I go to whorehouse, she's a goddamn whore, she'll blow me, so I go to a whorehouse because I can't have my wife to do that." He was a straight man, that's the way he spoke. Now what do you want me to do with him, say "you fucked up?" No. If your wife does whatever you want sexually, if she wants to please you sexually or not please you, if she doesn't please you, you will attempt to seek it elsewhere. Do you know what I mean by that? So some guys are called "womanizers". Well they're not really womanizers, they have different needs and one person doesn't always meet their needs. Now that's though on the person that he finds you to be the ideal person. If you go out with other women, they say "what are you, what's the matter with you, why aren't you satisfied with one?" And you say "why aren't you satisfied with many men?" You see, you're both right, there's nothing wrong with what you're doing. But when you begin to think there's something wrong with what you're doing, it's society trying to impose their values on you so you think there's something wrong with you, so you go to a marriage counselor and he says "why do you hate women?" You know, whatever. Like I knew a psychologist, very famous, I forgot his name, but his nurse was sitting in the office like that (?) he says "why do you want to kick me?" Because he was brought up with that school of psychology, the subconscious body language. He believed if a person is neglecting you, whatever the hell they're trained in they're less flexible, do you know what I mean? I wouldn't say that if Roxanne (?)were kicking her legs, (?) "how do you want to kick me?" Because I don't buy that package, but there are people that do, and so if you have a participatory democracy and all those people can participate you're going to have chaos. The qualified area will do better than participatory. That is you let everything go the way it goes naturally, you'll have arguments, jealousy, rage, a guy if his wife is very beautiful and she goes out with a lot of other men, because he doesn't... she needs to be told "hey, you're beautiful, your beautiful beyond description," she may need flattering." But if you don't flatter your wife, she meets a guy that says "you are the most beautiful thing I ever saw", she goes with that guy because she makes her feel good. You're a nice guy but you don't make her feel good. So you get mad at her, you don't really understand all these different needs, it's hard for people to do that. You can't sit back and identify with all variations. I don't know how people can do that. These are the problem areas. The problem area is trying to find a person with as near parallel values and meet your physical needs whatever they are. You like your hair stroked, but you're bald you don't have any hair and a girl looks for a guy with nice hair, she likes hair. And you can't, you can put a wig on, I knew a guy that used to come to sessions and he had a wig, but sometimes he put it on sideways, the part would run this way, (?)the wind would blow it around, he used to turn it around and since I lost my hair I had more girlfriends than ever. I never had a problem with women, but it was certain type of women I would go for, I wouldn't go for a girl that was just a singer, that wasn't enough. I would be nice to her, don't misunderstand me, but I would not... Your selection is based on your background. In the future we'll produce very similar values, meaning, similar values doesn't mean everybody will be alike, it means palm trees do not always bear coconuts, they vary, so all the kids are trained in different types of plants and they have the same attitude regarding the coconut tree. You can only get coconuts from the coconut tree, you can't get it from a pine tree. Would they all be alike? Is that bad? No, not if it corresponds with the environment. It would be bad if their views did not correspond with the environment. Do you know what that means? If you don't, I'll elaborate on it. So, maladjusted people sometimes really feel that their decisions are correct, so all the future can do is to put them to test to see if their decisions correlate with the physical environment. Fresco doesn't make those decisions. If you say I'll never swim in water over my head. Well, if you get in water that's up to you neck, you can swim and enjoy it you don't need to swim in a tank forty feet deep since you don't use (?) unless you swim underwater, you know? So most swimming pools for children will be so their heads is above water and you can learn to swim (?)or stand up. Now, I had an idea some years ago of putting a net on the bottom of the pool and if any kids sinks and touches that net, it comes up, so if you're in the kitchen cooking, you can't always look after your children, you're not sitting by the pool every minute, so if the child (?) they say the kid floating in the pool "Oh, my god what happened?" But if I put a net under the pool it's better than no net. Or if you design a life preserver, that's ejected out, when the kid says "help!" it's ejected out with a cable or telescopic rod and the kid grabs a life preserver. But if you say "be careful" to the kid, that doesn't help very much. Do you understand? The net. Will that be the way? Well, that will be the way until somebody else comes up with other systems. So, (?)let me use the word "temporary expert systems". Do you think you know what I mean? Competency test, in many ways. So it will never be a participatory democracy, but if a guy comes to this session and says "will it be a participatory democracy?" I have to tell him all these sayings to undo that notion, that the majority whether they be right or wrong, it still gives the majority the right to participate. It sounds very good, very democratic, but it's not, if you can agree with that. If you can't, we can't build a city So, will Fresco dictate the policy? Fresco doesn't dictate, he says "how many people can you support and how much energy will be consumed in their daily life, bringing stuff to the laundromat or is it a big laundromat in all of the buildings." And does the stuff goes in laundromat automatically or does a physician have to take his own laundry and put it in? Well, I rather automate the laundry so that a physician would be doing surgery instead of waste a half an hour washing clothing. And a person that's less competent in surgery and is not competent in any other area at that time (?) may be even do laundry. Do you know what I mean? I hate to use super competency doing laundry in the city system. Do you understand that? If you're an eye surgeon and there's many blind people in the city and you're helping them I don't want you cooking or doing laundry, I want a machine doing the cooking or a competent person. I hope this...if this system is installed you will need far less advice from psychologists or problem solvers, you won't have to go there, you'll understand why this is done this way. And if you're going to school studying the subject, while you're at it you might be doing menial tasks that have to be done while you don't have the competency. Is that alright? It's not a cruel punishment. Nobody looks at a dishwasher as a bad person, but the dishes are washed automatically, because I don't want anybody washing dishes. We can automate any repetitive process, but we have difficulty today automating a process that requires different handling under different conditions. They say that how can machines make decisions? They don't have to, a washing machine washes clothing. It doesn't have to make any decisions, but if you put the wrong type of fabric into the machine it will eject it. Do you know what I mean? Like (?) that shrink or don't shrink and you don't know that, the machine has to be given that kind of information. Will machines ever think for themselves? Not if the conditions keep varying. They will have to rely on programmers and until you can state any problem encountered by machines. (?) It's very difficult to do that, but can machines be designed to update themselves? You ask a person "what do you mean by update?" The person says "well, improve the circuitry." "- Well can you design flexible circuitry? - No. Well when you can let us know". Can a machine change it's circuitry? Yes, if it's done a certain way. I don't know if you know this, but if you take the spine of a human being and many nerve fibers and rotate it a little bit they will grow to their own fibers. Did you know that? Even if you cut the spine this way and rotate it this one will grow back to the one that has been connected, to a certain extent, you can't do a complete loop with it. So, if we can improve that extent, we can take people that have spinal injuries, since the spine seeks out it's own nerve fiber, a hell of a lot of money will be put up, not money but equipment to do research in that area. Do you understand? Any area that threatens human beings. Any human being a doctor, a lawyer (?) today, in a automobile accident still needs that research. You can have a spinal injury, you can have it, I can have it, so we'll do all kind of research. Who decides what's done? The majority of injuries. If the majority of people have eye problems, then more research is done not Fresco, he doesn't say "will build an eye clinic because he's got lousy eyes." Do you understand that? Okay. Will everybody be happy with the new system? No, during the transition, but after education, yes. They will understand why things are done that way, unless they come up with another system. (?)But nobody is restricted. I don't know whether this dissertation will enable people to understand. When you put it out there, I'll know, when I get a reaction. You say "I hate your system, I want a participatory (?) even though I'm not as competent as a competent person." Well, they don't understand my language, I would say. It's a question of understanding not just a question of me talking to people. I have to ask them "do you see anything in it that you'd like to change?" The guy would say "No. Then alright you're with us." But later on people might find things they don't identify with and we'll have to deal with that as it occurs. You can't anticipate everything, like just recently there was an earthquake in areas where there are no earthquakes New York, Washington DC, underwent some earthquakes (?) CNN. I think I told you that GE, General Electric owns major television like NBC, therefore they're not going to show the faults of General Electric on NBC. Do you understand? So we can't have any kind of vested interest in the future. I think that the system has to be very flexible, but nor democratic. Any other thing you want to discuss? That was a very important subject I wanted to discuss but now(?) Seeing the children as far as gaining the knowledge that they need, do you see them contributing to the city at a earlier age or...? Absolutely. When they're seven or eight years old they will make contributions and let's say we're working with six or seven years old, they'll set up their own government but this instructed in government management and all that, environmental management. Do you know what that means? Okay. They're instructed in that so you set up your own government. And of course there'll be limitations and they'll modify it and it will be interesting to see them learning them not get... if you don't give them medals. If you give them a medal for settling a good government, you're going to hurt a lot of other kids. You can't reward special kids, do you understand that? You make people feel bad, and you have to work on some system between systems. So when I have kids manage their own environment, I don't know if I told you this, if ten kids go for a walk in the woods, one kid will explain little streams of water (?) and animal life and fish life in that stream, another kid will be a near expert on trees and another kid on edible foods and nature, So all the kids will have their turn, there's no leader that leads the kids through unless he's much older. Do you understand what I'm saying? I would like the kids to like the idea that ten kids went out and you know more about animals than I do. "Is that a poisonous snake?" You say no. "How can you tell?" And you tell me. So the kids will tend to like each other. But if a guy says "you were (?) last time, I want to be (?) this time." You're using human systems against each other, do you understand? Okay, and as long as you do that you will have problems. So is your society, the one I talk about, free of problems? No. But it has far less problems than the standard system. Okay? Do you think you'll ever arrive at a time were you'll have no problems? Yes, I really do, through automation. I think people will have to be trained on how to accept the fact that we can't change everything. We can only change certain things and Alcoholics Anonymous has a statement: "Dear God, give me the power to accept the things I can't change." You know, if your brother is run over by a Mack truck, and both legs are cut off. You can't change that, you can't say "if only you had legs", unless you work on legs. So people learn to accept things and in turn when their brother gets hit by a Mack truck they feel bad, but they do something about it, they study the leg systems, new grafting systems, or artificial legs, they become involved, that's how I say they care, but they don't care if they (?). Or want to kill somebody, or hurt somebody, they really don't care, they don't know that they don't care. What you really want is good correspondence with another person, and you don't want to take on their problems because there are people that are problem solvers during the transition. They have to be educated into new reaction systems. In other words, they have to accept the fact that are certain things that are beyond our control like, at this time, earthquakes. In the future they may be a method, they may be a way of controlling tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis. Right now we have to say "they will occur when they occur" and "what can we do about it?" This is all we know today of what we can do about it. Maybe tomorrow we'll work out many other ways, but with all the people free to think up things it will be much easier. I don't think anybody will be held down unless they're born with half a brain. You know, there are anomalies like that, so we want to know people with just a right lobe of a brain, the left lobe never developed. We want to know anything they can do with half a brain, so we can deal with injuries. If a person is in a accident, which there will be, where a tree falls on a head and damages a large portion of the brain, we now know that we can work with (?) brain, or the frontal lobe, or the back lobe, do you know what I mean? But there's no need for democracy, there's need for expert systems and we can't do that right away. I hope you can understand me. (?) democracy and there's a lot of people that basically people have everything within themselves, you have to bring it out. I don't buy that. Do you understand? "People have goodness in them, you have to bring it out, bring out the goodness in the person." No, they have to be conditioned to know how to react. I think if you use the system I use you will be good. I don't have to say "be good." "Be kind." This to me is (?)kindness using expert systems. Is it perfect? No. It's better than what we have. I asked you last week about paranoia or fear... Well that's a good protection in this system. In this system if people plot against you, that's what that means. There are metal disorders, as the brain disintegrates due to a disease we become more paranoid, because we got to take care of ourselves (?)and we're not able to. Do you know what I mean? So, if I see you walk into my bedroom, I tell you you're going to steal my underwear. Why else would you be in my bedroom? So, I'll nurture that, "I got to watch him and make sure he doesn't go into my bedroom." You become concern, when you lose your ability to judge, old language, right from wrong. Do you know what I mean? When you lose that ability, the body tends to protect itself, under all circumstances. So, a lack of understanding, if you went in my bedroom and you took my underwear, if you came up to me and say "Gee, I need an extra underwear." I'll give you my underwear. You don't need to go in my bedroom and take the underwear, but if I don't understand you, you might go into my bedroom and take the underwear, but I can understand depravation, I don't smoke cigars, because I believe they're harmful, but they do taste good, but I know that the harm comes later, so I stay away from it. I may enjoy cigarettes, (?) "you got a smoke on you? Do you got some pot?" Well, it may relieve you of many tensions, but I can understand addiction, I'm addicted to not smoke. That's an addiction too, but I think it's more functional, but if you prove to me that there's good aspects of smoking, it releases your tensions. Well, it may be but I don't like cancer at all. And that's the trouble with a lot of cancers, it's a non-smooth death, unless they give you narcotics. In the old days, the discovery of opium in small packets were look upon as the "miracle drug". Whatever people suffered from they took a little bit of that and they felt no pain. So doctors prize it as "the miracle drug." Do you know what I mean? So if you have certain fears in this system a lot of them are justified. I can't say you're wrong, Larry. In this system predators are out there and they do work on you. And if you notice it in other people, try to ask them why they did this, or why they do that and try to show them that you too are looking for better ways of doing things. (?) if you admit that you don't know a lot of things, a lot of things have to be researched and people may not even know how to research it. Is it the method of judging a system is basically how well it works? You know, in semantics they teach you that the map is not the territory, did you ever read that? When you look at a roadmap (?)that road might be washed out, so on a road map the map is not the territory, that's what they mean about that. So does that mean the semanticist will learn Semantics to become better at communication or proving you wrong with it? Will they (?) use it? I taught my relatives Semantics and they became stock brokers and made a lot of money. I didn't know what they would do with it. They used Semantics and they made money with it, I hoped that more scientists would use Semantics for different reason. You know, you showed me a picture of the four children you got, "they're all very lovely", you're more apt to buy a car from me, than say "what are they for?" You're not going to buy a car from me. So, you live in a system that needs approval, people need approval. - Attorneys always learn Semantics, don't they? - No, not always. They do much better if they study Semantics. In fact there are many groups in America, (?) in big cities that are groups that study Semantics. Some of them study to beat the other guy, not as a means of improving communication. And there's also a guy that, Edward Belamy's Foundation. Edward Belamy wrote the book "Equality" on how to build a world, it was very good if you can get that book, one is called "Equality"(?), and the other one was "Looking Backward". Try to read it, it's very easy to read. And he talks about a different type of society. You should read it. His parables are simple are simple, easy to understand and I think he came from a wealthy family, I think he was religious to start with. That motivated him to try to make a world that's better. He didn't write about it, but I don't think religion offers the methods, it just says "be kind, do something nice for somebody", but that doesn't change society. - Is that it? - Yes. That's it. That one was very simple. If you don't understand that(?). Okay. Are there any questions regarding this? Check your (?) I posted some questions there. Yes, I got it, okay. What would be the purpose of the survey and how will that be different from direct participatory democracy? The survey? A survey tells you what the conditions are. If you have several thousand hungry people, you know how much water and food you bring into the area. If you don't know that, you can't make appropriate decisions. Direct participatory democracy really means a lot of people giving their own opinions and not being too competent and not always based on reality or for the betterment of people. I agree with that. Okay, do you think society and culture will stop The Venus Project from becoming a reality because the way I see people are too far gone with the meaningless views. I would say we can reach most people, because there are ways, different ways of doing it and once you study that, how to bridge the difference between people you'll have more appropriate approaches to the problem, but if you leave it up to people they usually not have the necessary information to modify behavior. If money is to be raised for the test city wouldn't the city still have to be created inside a nation or country for now? If so which country? I can't decide that, it's outside of my decision making system. We would pretty much do it anywhere. Oh, yes anywhere in the world that they wanted to build an experimental city to test the validity of The Venus Project's proposals. Will the city still have to pay taxes and the citizens? No, no tax. I think they're talking about to the country that hosts the city. No, not (?) Jacque, would you say to the country they would pay taxes? We don't change the conduct of a nation, except when they say "we'd like to learn more about The Venus Project and how you arrive at decisions." There's another addon to the first question in regards to the purpose of (?) The person asking (?) is he meant service of what people want. What's the reason for surveys regarding what people want? That is not a survey that we do. We do a survey of what people need, not what people want. They need food, water, clean air, a relevant education. They don't always know what their needs are. This person is asking in regards to if there was a city build in another country, would they still have to follow the laws of the country it resides in? They never get in that city unless they're given a qualification test. The existence of politicians versus technocrats is often justified for their knowledge of the public's proprietors and needs, okay. Let me just see what the question is here. (?) time may be very limited so what's the legitimacy of a technician to say which tasks to tackle and where the resources will be used first. What's a priority of resources, how they're used? It depends on many different systems, I can not offer a decision for that question, it depends on how poorly equipped the city is, whether it has all the facilities to tackle those problems, I can't answer that. We've done writing before in terms of the priorities being energy, food, housing, clothing... That's the only concerns that we have, how to provide the necessities of life for all the people within the new city. How does The Venus Project differ from Technocracy? Technocracy (?)had energy certificates, with the advent of nanotechnology, you don't need energy certificates. Technocracy is designed for the United States, The Venus Project is concerned with a global society. Technocracy has all kind of people in it that offer their own opinions. When I talked to Howard Scott and I asked him why there were no blacks in the organization, he said "let them start their own section." When I talked to him about orientals I said "there appears to be no orientals in Technocracy," Howard Scott remarked that "the oriental mind can not grasp technology". Of course that was a long time ago, and I could not defend that, that was before the United States that orientals can't accept technology, or that blacks have to start their own section, I could not defend that, so I resigned from the organization. Technocracy didn't go into behaviorism that completely either did they? They went into it to a very limited extent. - And they didn't have any plans or methodologies...? - Well, they said they had blueprints for anything, I never seen the blueprints except the continental hydrology. Do you think when Jacque dies and then the first city is built, it will turn into something other than Jacque has worked out? It depends on how long I live. It depends on how much people understand of this direction as well. Yes. If you let landscapers design the landscape, architects design the houses, car designers design the cars you will have not decided the most important democratic question: who decides how much resources the landscaper, the architect, the car designer etc. gets? What's available, it depends on what's available at the time. That's what the survey is for, the survey has to be done first to see what we have to work with. We have a shortage of material, we have to make substitute materials. If a member of the public whishes to be an inventor, how much access would they have to materials and how will they go about getting the required materials needed for their designs? They really don't do that, what happens is, if a person says I would like to become a dental surgeon, he has to go to school to study to study dentistry and the conditions that dental surgeons are subjected to. There are also workshops available to people to learn things. - Everyone. - Yes, and if you have an idea but you can't build things, there are other people who like to build things, but they don't really have ideas and very often they won't be very helpful to other people. I think that would be a relatively easy problem to solve. How will the education system work i.e. will students be able to select their classes to take according to their interest from an early age? Yes. Would they have specific lessons plans to do to a certain age? Will they be required to learn certain things? They will have to learn the fundamentals of a Resource Based Economy. - And science, scientific method. - Science and technology necessary to make it work. Somebody is asking if you've ever smoked marijuana. I've tried it, it did nothing for me. Somebody is asking "what kind of qualification tests, could you be specific on that?" Yes, if you don't nothing about hydrology you can not design skyscrapers, pumping system for moving water up to different heights. You have to understand the basic principles of hydrological methods. If you don't nothing about oceanography is very difficult to participate in the development or solving ocean problems. You'll be given a fundamental exposure to oceanography in order to participate. That goes for all areas of the service (?). And how do you tell if they're qualified, what will the test be like? How well they can work a system? What solutions they bring to the system? How much they really understand of the system? That's the qualifications, whether their system works how well the system works determines their qualifications. How will different non-essential manufacturing would be differentiated? Okay how would you differentiate between say how will resources be allocated between guitars or violins? Well, you'll have public library with more instruments that people check out just like the public library. All distribution centers work identical to the public library. You can check out a lawnmower, or a violin for two week or a month, whatever time you wish to use it, but you will have to inform the checkout library as to how long you would like to have it. That's the whole basis of all the designs in a Resource-Based Economy so there's more resources to go around so there's abundance as quickly as possible. This is the aim, trying to achieve abundance in all fields. Can you provide a criteria for selection of people to be allowed to enter the new city? If the new city is occupied by the planners, you have to ask people what their profession is and what they feel they can contribute in relation to the needs of the new city. If they do not have to qualification, we tell them what is needed and what you have to study to be able to assist. And that goes for understanding this direction so they can help people... - Yes. - Train and educate other people. Read our books, study our tapes. If you read our books and study our tapes it will enable you to understand it much better and if you discuss what you read with other people, you can solidify your viewpoints in areas of misunderstanding. What is needed is a great deal of clarification between the old language and the new language. This is the same kind of question: "but after the survey, if there were a certain quantity of resources how will the distribution of that resource be done through all the areas involved in meeting people's needs?" If a new disease spreads out that is very difficult to control, high priorities will be given to research in that area. That goes for all areas of difficulty. Priorities will be given by the number of people that need that kind of thing or service. So we give landscapers, architects, etcetera all the resources they ask for. That is not possible. - Well, I can't argue with that. - Well, I mean, there are certain amount of resources that are needed for whatever job has to be done, and if the resources aren't available, that's what scientist are put on... That's what they do research in, making materials that are scarce. Making substitute materials that can serve similar functions. What about non-essential, non-shared items for personal use? What if the musicians want to have their own guitars? Certainly. They can make them if they want to If they have something that they use all the time, of course. Yes. Okay, how the decision (?)be made whether the item should be manufactured as a shared model or a private item? It depends on how much use they have, if they have a need for something all the time, then it will be kept with them. How will we go about doing a survey to know where to build the first city? We can build the first city anyplace where the land is made available and the resources. If we had a choice, preferably, the land would be in the tropics and flatland, it would just be easier, it wouldn't take as much resources initially. And we could use solar energy as well. Is it necessary that we know the exact amount of resources on Earth before we start a Resource-Based Economy or can a Resource-Based Economy happen without necessarily being so exact? Yes it can. We need not have all the resources immediately, so you build it according to those limitations and you announce the fact that it's limited, and you also announce approximately how long it will take to build up enough resources to handle a specific problem. (?)This person is saying "it seems to me that people generally have problems with making priorities, why or how is this different in the future?" Well, in the future there are orders of priority, like public health and wellbeing may be number one Education maybe number two. It depends on the importance at the time that The Venus Project is installed. When the first city is built, The Venus Project doesn't make a profit, how do we keep a city functioning and expand and build more cities, if the first city doesn't make a profit how do you expand? I don't know what profit making is, but the term "profit making" to me is only used during the monetary system. If we're in a transition between the monetary system and a Resource-Based Economy and the first city is built, it needs money. It needs propriety, materials, concrete not money. That's what Resource-Based Economy means, that you have access to resources, money is not resource, money it's artificial. You're still thinking within the monetary system. How much land and resources will be needed to build the first city? That isn't the question. How much will be granted to us to build the first city? That will depend on the size. Anything else, we'll take a couple more, if they are any? Yes, hang on, (?) topic, if you want to go in religion I can pass you something on. Okay, you can pass it on. This person's from India, and there's a lot of religion in his nation, how do you tackle religion and dogma in some places like India? You have to write many different versions of religion, and present those different versions to all people and they will select the most appropriate religion for their own views. When you go to work for a company and you start talking religion, they say "we want you to stay with the ball bearings, not on company time." In other words, religion can be talked about at philosophical meetings, but not on company time, meaning the Resource-Based Economy concerns itself with providing with human needs that are essential. Please ask Jacque about the issue of trust. People feel that democracy can be trusted because everyone votes. How can people trust the decisions that are arrived at in a Resource-Based Economy? Well, in the monetary system you really don't trust them, you say "put it on paper" and an attorney writes that up so that your performance is more apt to be accurate, they have contracts. - You don't pick the people you vote on either. - No. - You really have very little participation... - Although you have the illusion that you pick the people. It depends on how the media sways how things are going, they can sway the decision making of people considerably How can people trust the decisions that are arrived at in a Resource-Based Economy? It isn't a question of trust, it's a question of the competence of the survey committee and once the survey committee begins to give you information, you have access to the same system that the survey committee has for making a decision or arriving at a decision. We put things to test. Before we let a Mack truck go over a bridge, they go over scales first to see what they weigh to make sure that it would be a safe venture going over a bridge. But that's already done today. I think also it depends, the word "trust" that they use... we don't use trust, we use "scales", "scientific scales of performance", not trust. Those words disappear in a Resource-Based Economy. People would understand that when it sees that it meets their needs more than what they have today... They have to watch our films, you have to watch our films and read our books. That's all we require of you, is that you read and become better informed, rather then just toss out a bunch of questions. You might find it on our website. Resource-Based Economy constitutional law, human rights and international law, how important is it? Do people in a Resource-Based Economy need basic laws, rules or laws and how? They need to understand how scientists arrive at decisions. Once they understand that they know how to go about making a decision, or I should say arriving at a decision. You can't put five hundred passengers in an airplane that can only carry ninety five people. No matter how many laws you have on it working. If the laws do not correspond to the physical environment, they would be set aside. There are laws about not stealing in this culture because of the incompetency of the culture itself how poorly it's designed and how there's so much inequity in it, so you make laws "do not steal" and that protects the people in power who have the money, who have the things, they make the laws, - Yes, of course. - The laws are really erroneous. You can't make any laws on how many breaths you take a minute, if it doesn't meet the needs of the body to exist. Yes, of course. So laws are really erroneous, you don't need them. Laws are crude attempts to control behavior. - We wouldn't need them if people's need are met. - Yes. Even people's changing needs have to be met, they're not fixed. Can The Venus Project start selling technologies, any technologies in the monetary system to fund what it wants to do? Yes, apparently we all live in the monetary system and if we have books printed, they do not print the books for nothing, they do charge us, so we have to be able to afford those books and tapes. So we have to participate in some way in a monetary system, until we get to the conditions that warrant the insulation of a Resource-Based Economy. We're not in a position right now to sell technologies, we're really mainly interested in having people understand this direction and changing values, so our books and videos correspond with that, although we give a lot away too. Yes, that's true. Assuming the resources are available how long will it take to construct the first city? - I'd have to know what kind of resources are available. - How big the city would be... How many people, how much water is needed, how much arable land. I can't make that decision unless I have all that information. It would be much quicker than any other city, though, yes, because a lot of the things will be prefabricated and a lot of things would be duplicated. That would be the intelligent management of limited resources. What design of city layout would be used for the first city? Jacque, literally, has hundreds of city designs here, but it really just depends on where it would be, how many, what the needs of the city are... Population, its density, its education, we'd have to know how many engineers, how many architects they have in that area. And it takes many bits of information to come up with a procedural system to carry out the necessary process to build those cities. Is it not arrogant to claim ruling over resources by just humans, without considering all living beings sharing this existence? We share with as many people as we could possibly can. I think they're talking about animal life and the environment. Yes we do consider the symbiotic principles of the interrelationship of nature and humans. - Right, we can't exist without it. - That's true. That's a major priority. I guess that's it for today. Well, thank you for participating and thank you for asking these questions. I hope some of you understand most of the answers, if not you can consult our website. There are lots of questions that are answered on the website. Yes. - Okay, thanks everyone, we appreciate it. - Yes. Thank you, Jacque and Roxanne for being here today, thank you everyone else also for being here and listening (?)in. Hopefully, we will see you next Sunday and if you have any other questions meanwhile, contact either at [email protected] or send your questions to [email protected]

Video Details

Duration: 1 hour, 13 minutes and 9 seconds
Year: 2012
Country: United States
Language: English
Producer: The Venus Project
Director: The Venus Project
Views: 6
Posted by: ltiofficial on Feb 18, 2016

TVP Teamspeak Q&A Seminar - Competent Democracy - 2012-02-19

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