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Kjell 2010-03-31.avi

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- You are incredibly considerate, all of you. Very considerate towards each other. But you, Mischa, and you, Simon: are also very careful with each other. You care a lot about things working out and so forth. But sometimes I think that can become an obstacle. That you're too careful...we talked a little bit about this last time. You're so incredibly careful with each other that it becomes an obstacle that makes it hard to talk about difficult things. When I heard you talking just now, I was wondering if you, Mischa and Simon, could talk a bit about that. And what it is that... ...makes it difficult to do this and that. - In general? - Yes, when it comes to doing things. If you could talk about that. - You mean like going out to eat? - Exactly. If you could talk about it. What is that makes it so difficult? - Later or? - No, talk about it now, when we're here. - It's hard because you'll often refuse to... ...or you don't feel like it. You're tired and so on. - Yes. - And how's that for you, Mischa? When Simon says he doesn't feel like it. Or what did you say? What do you usually tell dad? - Like..."I don't feel like it." - And how is that for me? I just accept it somehow. But not right away. I do try, sort of. But I feel like it will be better once the weather gets better. And he's had some friends over here. One of them was over here for several hours yesterday. - It's been a while since he was here. - No, he was here the day before too. - Erland? - Yes, he's been here two days in a row. - But before this time, it's been a while? - Yes. - I just have to tell Mischa something. Can I? About how it feels for him when Simon refuses. I have to honestly say that you haven't push him hard enough on that issue. - Yes, I have. - But what about going to visit Natalie? - We haven't had a real chance to do it. Now is the first chance we've had. - If you had been pushier... - But wait a minute. I understand exactly what you mean, but here's what I'd like Maud... Here's what I'm thinking... What could you do to support Mischa so that he gets the strength to do this? It sounds to me as if... ...when Simon says no, Mischa doesn't know what to do. In other words, when Simon says that he doesn't feel like it. I'm thinking that you and Mischa could talk about that. How can you support him? Without taking over the situation. - I understand that he is sick of nagging, but I get frustrated that he cannot come up with another strategy. "For example, if you do this..." And I know Mischa really well and I still think...for example, regarding this visit to Natalie's. If there wasn't anything to blame. If you could take the car despite the summer tires, and he slept well that night. I know, and you can admit this, that you too have a hard time. So you wouldn't push as hard as I did last Saturday for example. Like I said then: "Let's do it. We'll take a cab there, just come along!" Otherwise he would have refused. But if you really want to... - I wouldn't be difficult it wasn't for...you were also home sick for a few weeks. When that happened, you didn't go anywhere with him. - That's not an accusation. - No, but you often talk like that. - And what happens to you then, Mischa? When Maud talks like that? - It just feels wrong when she talks like that. - And what happens to you then? - He gets cross. - Not, I don't get cross exactly, but Maud is always talking on the other end about what's going to happen and then when she's here, nothing happens. - So what do you wish that Maud could do to make it easier for you? - I don't think she can help me with that. - Is there anything she can do? - No, I don't think so. Although she could try to take him out some time. Like this past Saturday. But to help me to get him out... ...I don't think that would be helpful for me. - But it would help you if Maud did stuff with Simon? That would help you too? - Yes, sort of. But that's mostly because I think it would be fun for Simon. It doesn't benefit me personally. - But it would make you feel good? - Yes, it's good for Simon to get out a bit. - So it would be helpful to you to get Simon out of the house? That's what I mean. Or for Simon to active himself, which might make it easier for you long term. - Yes, but I have tons of ideas. I'm going to take him to Maud's sister's summer house and things like that. - That's a good idea. - Yes, so he'll get out of the house. - But I get even more curious about what happens between you two. Because I'm wondering what it is that makes... Can you check with Simon what it is that makes him say no? "I don't feel like it, I don't want to." - He never answers that. - But ask him now that we're here. - Why do you always say no? - I don't know. Because I don't feel like it. I'm tired and stuff. I don't know. - That's the only answer I get. I have asked a thousand times. - Can you ask Simon if you could do it differently somehow? - Can I do it differently somehow? - Well... Like what? I don't really understand. - If we go by car, you're willing to come. That works. Same way Maud got him to go when she took a cab. - Yes, it's easier then. - But could you say it differently? - No, I don't think so. - If you asked Simon to do it for you, would that make a difference? If you could ask him. - We talked a bit about that last time. Well...I have said to you many times: "You can do it for me." But I don't think that makes much of a difference. - Check again if that would change anything. - But Simon has tagged along a few times for my sake. So it's not always "no." He said that he would come with me to the laundry room to help me carry. And he helped me hang up all the laundry. He did that for me. And I know that there are lots of things that you would be amenable to doing. That you would do for my sake. - Would it be different, Simon? If you did it for your dad or for yourself? - Yes... Like, helping him with the laundry... I did that because... - Because he wanted you to help him? - Yes. To help him. - Those are your clothes too, Simon. - How does it make you feel, Simon, when you're helping your dad? - It feels good. He feels safe then, so it feels good to help him. - Can we do this, Simon? Can you ask your dad what it is that makes it so hard for him? Ask him why it's difficult for him to get on your case. - Why is it difficult to get on my case? - I feel like I'm on your case. Maybe not as much as mom, but still... - Or ask your dad why it's hard for him to get you to come with him? - Why is it hard to get me to go with you? - That's for you to answer. It's because he always say "no" or "he doesn't feel like it." - And what happens to you in those situations, Mischa? I'm curious about that. If you could describe it to Simon. - It feels like I don't care that much. At least not afterward. It's just in that moment [that I care]. Or maybe it's because I'm just used to it. I don't know. I know when there's no point in continuing to nag. - Because it will result in a conflict or a fight? - Yes, something along those lines. - And what happens to you then? Can you describe to Simon what happens to you? - No, I don't know. I just give up. It's not like I walk around thinking about it. - Can I ask you this: Are you worried about how Simon is doing/feeling? You talked about that a bit last time: How is Simon doing? You describe how things are getting better in school and with his friends... - Yes, of course I'm worried, but not about how he's feeling right now. I'm mostly worried about the future. I want to... - Can you describe to Simon what that anxiety for the future looks like? - Well, it's about you not going out and hanging out with friends. Stuff like that. I'm worried that you might get some psychological problems. All sorts of things. - Yes. - I get worried when I hear that he doesn't dare to take the subway. - So you are very considerate towards Simon? You don't want him to experience the things that you have experienced? - Yes, I absolutely don't want that. I want him to ride the subway. But Simon doesn't ever tell me why he doesn't want to do it. - How about you ask him right now? - It will be the same answer as usual. Why don't you want to ride the subway? - I don't know how to answer that. - What happens to you, Simon, when dad asks you that question? - I actually don't really know. - What did you say? - I don't really know why I don't want to ride [the subway]. I just haven't felt like it recently. I don't know why. - But what happens when dad asks you that question? What happens then? - I don't know. - Does it feel difficult? - Well... I guess a little bit...I don't know what to answer because I start thinking too. - What if dad was more stubborn and kept at it: Would that make a difference? - No, I don't know. It's hard to tell. - It's hard to tell. What if dad said it just like he says it to mom; that he wants you to help him with the laundry for his sake and he wants you to take the subway for his sake: Would that make a difference? - Well, I do help him with stuff around the house. For his sake. Like coming along in the car to buy groceries. But I don't know what I would do if he asked me to ride the subway for his sake. I don't know what would happen then. - If dad said: "I want us to go to Vällingby." [A few subway stops away] - Then I would say: "Let's take the car." - But what if dad said: "I've made up my mind and we're not taking the car." I want us to take the subway for my sake. It would feel good to me." "To walk and then take the subway." - Yes...I don't know what to answer. - What do you think would happen? - I wouldn't want to come. - That's what would happen? You would say: "No, I don't feel like it." - Yes, something like that. - And what would happen to your dad when you said that? What happens to dad when you say that? - He would probably be disappointed. - Is that how it usually is? - Yes. - And how does that make you feel? Can you describe it to dad? What happens to you when dad gets disappointed? - Well, it feels like... I should have come even though I didn't want to. I really should have, but I really didn't want to. - Do you feel sad in those situations? - Well, I don't think about it much. - But when you do think about it in that situation? - No... No...or yes. A little bit. - Listening to you makes me think that this considerate attitude has become a little bit of an obstacle. The consideration becomes a difficulty. Because you're very protective towards each other. - I don't feel like we're very protective towards each other. - No, but when I listen to you, that's what I sense. You're careful with each other, that's how I would put it. Or...I have to ask at least. - I don't see that as an obstacle. - How do you see it? Can you describe it? - Well, I don't see it as an obstacle. I think it's pretty normal to be considerate. That you should be. - But you're describing it as a difficulty in your relationship with Simon. - But that's true for all relationships. Regarding most things. It's not a difficulty on a personal level between us. It's not. Most of the time, everything will pass quickly. That's the way it is. - But you're describing how you would like to do more things. Get out of the house more and to get Simon out and get him active again. - But deep inside I believe that will happen. As soon as the weather gets better and so on. - What do you think? What grade are you in right now? - 8th grade. - So you have one year left [of compulsory school]. If you think about the future. - Yes, that's what I'm worried about. I actually try not to think about it too much. I'll cross that bridge when I get there. But it's worrisome. Of course it is. - Here's what I'm thinking: What would you need to do? You and Simon? In order to... - But it's impossible to answer that. - For everything to start rolling, you mean? - For things to be easier. - Easier with what? - To get to a place where everything feels easier. If you think about it as steps. - Yes, but like I said: I think it will get easier. I think the weather is an important factor. - I'm also thinking about this... You talked about how you have received psychological help and medication. Do you think that will help Simon? - Yes, but I feel much better now. And I think that's positive for Simon, too. Because I'm more engaged and so on. I'm more alert too. - Check with Simon if that's the case. If he feels like you're more alert. That you're feeling better. If he can tell. - Can you tell that I'm feeling better? - Yes. - Check with Simon what that means to him. That he can tell that you're better. Check. - What does it mean to you that I'm feeling better? - It's good. Makes you happy. - Does it make you or dad happy? - I feel happy. And he too probably. - But it makes you happy? - Yes. - Do you also feel more hopeful when you see that your dad is happier? - Yes. - Because what I see today is a much happier Simon. It was the first thing I thought about when I walked in here today. It's a more open Simon. And Simon who said hi and seemed happy. And he was already sitting here when we walked in. And I was thinking: Something has happened that has made you happier. And mom has talked about how you've actually done things that have made her happy. And they have made your dad happy too. And yourself too, of course. And I can tell that you're looking at your dad with much happier eyes today than you have ever done before during our previous visits. - OK, I can't tell. - I talked to you about that, Simon: "Does it feel better now compared to before..." "...when you hit rock bottom and you were depressed about school?" I asked you that. Do you remember? And you replied that it felt better. And you understood what I had told you: When you get going with things, it feels better. And these little things you're doing will make you feel better and better. So I think it's great that you're studying. - When you, Maud, look at Simon and Mischa: Do you notice a difference? Compared to how it has been? - Above all, I feel like Simon is more open. Like you said: He's happier now. I think he was more depressed before. About a month ago. Right, Simon? - Yes, a bit. - You used to refuse. Maybe your self confidence got better as you got going? - Yes. - He's more like he used to be. He seems to have gotten out of the worst depression. - What about Mischa? - He's like he always is. No, I'm just joking. No, it's hard to tell. I'm so used to it. It's hard to tell. There's no noticeable difference between... Well, I do see that he feels better now than he used to. Of course I can see that. It's big difference. You can tell. So I notice that. - So there's a big difference.. - Sure, sure. But about doing more things with Simon: There's one thing I wanted us to discuss with Simon. I think we need to handle it like you handle little kids: set small goals. And make a plan. I've told you that in the past. Not to announce the day of that: "Today we'll do this and that" But to prepare earlier: "On Wednesday we'll try to do this." Right, Simon? What do you think about that? - Can we stop for a bit, Maud? I would like you to talk to Mischa about it and not to Simon. Don't check with Simon. I notice that you always check with Simon to see what he wants. "Would that work for you Simon?" I would like you to check with Mischa to see what he thinks. Before you check with Simon. Do you understand what I mean? - I understand what you mean. - So check with Mischa and Simon can listen to you. - Here's what I'm thinking, Mischa, and I have said it before: You have to make a plan. That goes for everybody, not just you and Simon. It goes for me and Simon or the three of us. For example, if you were to say: "On Tuesday we're going to the doctor." Or: "On Tuesday we're going out for lunch." Or whatever. Or: "We're going to Solna, so please don't stay up too late." That's important. I think he needs to prepare himself somehow. And I think you have to talk like you talk to a kid at daycare. "This will be fun. We'll go here and there." Talk like that. And I have brought that up with you before. - Yes, and I have tried. So that's not news to me. - No, but if you were to try harder. For example, going to Natalie's for lunch. "Natalie knows that we're coming Wednesday and it will be great." And so on. "On Wednesday at 2 PM. We're leaving at 1:30 sharp." To do it that way. Instead of bringing it up Wednesday morning. - What do you think, Mischa? I notice that you're deep in thought. - Yes, but it's all about how Simon feels on the day of. - Do you think it would make a difference if you talked about it beforehand? That you made a decision together: Let's try to do this. Do you think it would make a difference? If you talked about it? - Very little, I think. - I think it would make a difference. If we planned something together. - You mean the two of us would do something with him? The three of us? - Yes. - Oh, OK. - That the three of you would do something. - Yes, I'm sure Simon would like that. Because both of us would be there. - Then another thing... - Wait a minute! Stop. I would like you to continue talking about this. Because I noticed something happening. When you told Mischa that you were going to do something together, you, Mischa, looked very happy. - He wants me to be there. - You looked very happy when Maud said that. - Yes, I think that would be good for Simon. - But it made you hopeful that things would be easier. - Sometimes that happens naturally so to speak. But, yes, it would probably make it easier to get Simon out of the house. - And what would that mean to you? Would that make you feel better? - Yes, of course. - So what would happen if you asked Maud for help? Would she listen? - Yes, she probably would. - Can you check with her? - Would you? - Do something? Yes, I can do something when I'm not working. I can't run around all over town. - No, I know that. That goes without saying.

Video Details

Duration: 1 hour, 3 minutes and 23 seconds
Country: Sweden
Language: Swedish
Genre: None
Views: 44
Posted by: erikrune on Apr 8, 2010

Uploaded April 8th, 2010

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