The Zeitgeist Movement LA, CA Townhall July 19th 2011 [Part 2: Q&A]
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the the explosion in automation and
this sort of
imagine mastery of
of the physical environment that that we have with me
lucerne materialist legacy thinking
distrib in by fossil fuels and hydrocarbon energy
and
without that or if there's a scarcity of that or
if there's a commodity cation of that
it's not based upon
uh... universal ownership
uh...
wind much of this automation depend on
or
billion
years of
uh... the legacy fossil fuels that
were burning up in nablus generation at this stage for that brings and a whole
new subject of of where we are with renewables an understanding of
renewables in mn
advanced applications of the summit different forms of energy that we really
do have an unnatural familiar with
with where we are with
university solar geothermal and wind
different forms of radiation that are you know
that are actually uh...
recognize that industries excuse me
we've heard mixed reviews was of course mixed reviews unless the establishment
of us scientists will get very cynical on the issue but you just have to think
very simply in this plenty of side is by the way they're actually very keeley
pushing forward
without the innovations of most of these market
and the reason they push nuclear n
and honey o's
but studded traditionalists establishment alternative alternative
they have right now
laura what's the big winner
hydrogen right that they're pushing the hydrogen things must leave the reason
they do this to the supports
it supports the infrastructure that's existed prior because that's where the
market
elevate comes into play it's on my permeates the the values in
consciousness of all these people to talk
as opposed to every single building in los angeles having built in solar panels
they can easily
through battery technology nserver capacitors
house and power
everyday
to infinity is that the next four billion years
if the energy was put forward to that you wouldn't even need a centralized
power construction in most cases
now they're did but it depends on where it what the efficiency means most homes
uh... to be equipped with such things in his jock frescoes brilliant on these
subjects if u
i'm sure you're familiar with his work on some level but the renewable energy
stuff
these militarists on wonderful concepts of invention that are really been coming
to fruition of course the past five years in pockets
factory web site called site news dot org
but should does nothing but document advancements in energy advancements in
technology there for social concern
there is i can say definitely no
energy problem the entire
we are energy everything is energy
we are simply locked into this distorted paradigm
that's been using hydrocarbons for so long and an infrastructure that supports
a market system
if we went into objective energy usage in the renewable sense maybe just a bit
was right
ever made sense as opposed to what we needed to make money then uh... you were
difficult for what it would be an energy market would all be localize and you
wouldn't have the massive multi trillion dollar
energy institution that you have now and that's really what the barrier is
so that original point automation can be power just like when we send spaceships
into space they're all solar powered
you know once they get in there you know the the debt
these things are there have been there for a long time in between battery
technology super to pastors
and the very fact that everything is going to the sun one way or all of all
of our forms of energy derived from the sun
one way or another
uh... you just have to put this into perspective
as long as the sun is there
where we're doing fine and there's a massive abundance i can assure you so i
have no problems with the governor nature of automation
frankly i think solar power and geothermal be the dominant uh... energy
sources in the future
run in the super capacitors which create redundancy uh... almost to infinity
probably
based on how it develops and finally there's there's this question that has
less to do
blodgett can we just takes
were maybe does have a lot to do with logic and capacity for
discerning
logic versus sofas trien
pulling people into a higher level paradigm
people often are blocked
when you can't use logic on somebody
um...
terminate haven't studied propositional logic in got a degree in philosophy
how do you change
their emotional mind
by uh... i think
i'm sorta hard questions rumor
might have a tendency to do this on a after this i would have an answer
questions first
um...
what i would say is
or for example the psyche as media festival that were intending of what
people say what's that about you know let's just sounds like some party or
something i should know
art has put the renaissance art has always been the initiator in my mind
the man history actually
uh... it could be subversion tradition but if you look back at history the
initiators of new paradigm zafar boys come from a more of artistic standpoint
and in rigid
academics or scientists in a very
there's up there's a thug overflow of ambition and speculation
and that basically everything that defines the cervix perimental nature of
art
and why my film series is a ridge s trophy seated then there's always a have
a pocket of just real stuff associates
to trying to break that
that hard mean that people have
and the media media festival as opposed to say zeitgeist days i can stay as a
straight intellectual than some of this but it's very long
is is not all speakers as their intense
uh... to be a festival saying okay let's
try to get under people's skin with the sense of values that are associated
with the intellectual stuff that we talk about
so the people that we feature have a social contacts of people experience
this may come out of it ideal board brainwashing
but all of us are brainwashed one way or another
so it's a false terminal itself because we can't possibly exist
any thought process without the influence of others
kind of reciprocal reinforcement that makes it viable to us over time such as
trying to talk to some of the events really inducted into religion is america
logic you pull out
uh... they they just believe what they believe in they've established
usually pre established methods of defense against anything the challenges
than and the core element of most religious philosophy is oh i think
western your religion it's a sense of po
they got you're right there
kennedy question ed
so but that's the way most people think of the economic sphere they they placed
a choke they have a framework of
could be a big question outside it suddenly become a fringe income
conspiracy theorist reba come something that is not acceptable socially and
that's what keeps people have it it's really good
the external view of them
like a whole if i change my mind on something i might be seen as
somebody who isn't
center to really understand in the world around me so i can't possibly change my
mind the ego thing you know
uh... so these are things we have to overcome right at the uh... i don't
claim to
some uh... universal application or approach this but i know that art
uh... is critical for a human evolution for that experimental element of it in
really scientific engineering always been an art form you know it's always
been the experiment minimally
so i think the people
as time is four there are so heartened
will first hopefully be affected by the breakdown that's occurring double
challenged them because of most of their values i think will be challenged as
this continues
table hopefully identify with some elements that will resonate you know for
example
no one likes to see people suffer at least i don't think most people do
uh... you know it's not inherent to the condition as we have a sympathetic
qualities
uh... and then
and then there is the uh...
then there is the uh... yet then there's the mass appeal
missus will is like this moment hopefully you can manifest people that
skew the manifest eight mast large enough for poor people feel comfortable
identifying with something that they prior might have felt it was too radical
for their association and made them seem
of to sit in their inner circle unit main tuesday that there is a there is a
sheepish quality human behavior of tough
if effed all of a star running really fast this way
many he would react
an instinctual ito are run with us
this is the way that sort of social organism works
and that even though it and that's used for manipulation of the obviously wicked
wikipedia is uh... major events uh...
uh... throughout the course of history do how wars are engineered lots of
things about
ceridian psychological pressures that
create that sheepish mass appeal and that can be worked in a negative sense
organi work in a positive sense you would hope that
people would have the internal integrity do exist on their own objectively
that doesn't work that way
uh... so there is a strategy that there is uh... it it's intrinsically
manipulative just like any type of conversation is
the difference is is that you hope that
whatever but you do to persuade people brings them in just enough
where they can realize it for themselves and it's not something sheepish staying
where they just believe blindly something
that's exactly the opposite of what it takes to understand this movement is it
really demands
firm personal identification because you have everything against him otherwise
consents
to a certain agree
to certain degree insistence
the delicate balance
uh... hank brown
peter i just wanna say lovingly fell through your mind from france image is
awesome
my question is to do more with tickets brick this momentous proposing and my
understanding base in the movie was it imani uh...
a blanket cpan communism
that kind of idea and
and one kind of asking if you factually leave tank wrapping a committees country
was called yugoslavia
so we were all supposed to be equal and sharing everything was supposed to be a
great and it was then obviously didn't work
and so
i was just wondering michael why do you think that
what you're proposing i wasn't going to be different if you see on that was kind
of try
and it failed and so i was kind of thing
on a bill that others eletters into this field but i'll to save
that those models that existed prior
they'd never had a relationship to something physical
they were based on ideologies
so you go back to mark's effective angles
they talked about a certain view of humanity as a philosophical view that
but very rarely any of that literature org deaf or not in the approach
did it say okay what makes sense
for human society what can we derive from a scientific
why do we want to share the resource was the reasoning for it
and is the is the condition that we're going to create it going to be conducive
to it
communism never had a chance because it wasn't working with in
a monetary driven environment agree driven by many properties of environment
globally anyway
so it
deposited there was never like people say well this is m marks wanted to have
an moneyless aside a which is an exactly true
but they didn't throw this out assuming such a thing
at idon't etsy thing is i don't think communism really manifested anyway that
it was supposed to manifest first of all if you really go back and read it
and then look at the vocal ship revolution
and the interests and values they had and what actually happened when the
dictatorships were that's created the idea bus
the idea might have been similar and she acting but this isn't about just going
to quality in the sense of all it's just a nice thing to do it this is about we
have to do this otherwise the instability that arises
from the imbalance from the motivations that are distorted will get the better
of us one way or another that big chart of debt is really an expression of a
mass kind of delusion of greed and distortion
many different people are manifesting intend them
and they don't realize it though
the words
tortoises of stress that just abstract point
everything we're seeing today socially that's problematic is coming from in
frame of reference that's braun it has no relationship to anything tangible
and communism as it was practiced was exactly the same way
and it still ended up with money it's still ended up with military and police
dictators in control
if he didn't believe it well very often you our viewers deposing women these are
very serious things that
barb reminiscent of a very messed up period of time
the logic behind the cyclist limit though comes from an end
from what has to be in in impure kal place
sab based on a floating philosophy or any assumptions
granted all scientific knowledge in the sunshine some level buddy comes from the
white brown says okay how do we maintain stability how do we have i really don't
you go to an airport and be indeed
beaten uh...
croak molest exactly
what does it mean to have security and then there were on the fundamental level
specific your point is the quality notion really sustainably notion has to
be true quality
you can allow
the loose notion of equality
uh... to permeates some lower-class and then let the upper class do whatever
they want and then to combat that the whole system has to be specifically
created based around
the principles that we describe related to resources
with everyone understanding that thoroughly so everyone can participate
in it and these these are big statements by apologizing to get more specifically
uh... talked forever on it
because what you think that they would have to happen globally unique and i
think we're going to do and definitively station unless it happens everywhere in
the next week
where i global movements
and soon
a lot of the differences are that
there's not and national
um... there's not a social stratification of a ruling class and the
working class
uh... we're talking about uh...
technical reference technical solutions solving
uh... basic later problems but also bringing everyone up to the highest
levels standard of living that's possible keeping things sustainable
uh... given that that's what if we are sat down i really thought about it
logically this makes sense
for everyone
and and then there's the property issue pretty calm is a more settlers no profit
you know that was the stable not ever and no one really ever asked yourself
everything that i could have been supposedly
majority but everything everything don't ever asking why in the sense of what
does that mean that we could come from it but from what
environmental standpoint ise okays a release martin are mentally a finite
planet
the finite resources for every single human being that on an automobile they
tried
made the ten percent of day at the most
these these rationales say okay we the society the political supporters
bus devise a system of sharing these these
hurricanes are these the rationale becomes so that's the property issues
and religious nation
a philosophical loaded associative known tony ninja dealership is is this is
about so-called camilo shipping abstraction
it's about what we have to do the biggest animals we can
allowing for the most people to have access to the things that they need and
beyond
and how do we create a system
that brings that together great that we know that dizzy paras
you know the targeting arrangement that works really well in new york red that
men should not have
antigua and can certificate
everyone carina
so i have a couple questions are first was uh...
the main role of government or house government hamilton a resource based
economy and second was and he says the government you know in this current
paradigm in this in arkansas debate handle you know the lawmaking and
legislation and defining morality basically for all of us
uh... how is it how is that handled in a resource base akamai basically how would
a resource base called me define morality and you know enforce it if need
be
natural law
that's what the basis of it is
but that natural i would be well we all have in common mode
uh... as opposed to uh... one imposed on us by governmental system
but i would say that
you arrive at the morality or by put it more specifically is values
it arriving a values from something tangible as upset as opposed to
something that's just traditionally presented to you two people value a lot
of strange things in our culture from religion to to patriotism
you know to their leaders in
into a lot of strange things like
fascination with the celebrities and
with all these things that have been imposed on people they create that
gesture that reinforce itself
government is a huge concept though you know government as as we do a lot with a
lot of tree but on this that so that's difficult to describe a singular way
but what you want is
a systems approach to risk management were government actually doesn't exist
in the realm that we think of today
you have what is what is really the facilitation of government really
at its core issue to remove all the layers of nonsense all the wars all the
things that are brought out of yes but who gets what
baskets how is it has economics governments it is really a formal should
be the management of an economic economy nothing more
the but what we're doing his will come at a history of dynasties in in emperors
in
our system there's just an echo of this early
a few lustig basic basically feel istic type of strathclyde systems
so they get over that girls extremely huge thing because of the values that
every grain to that and then the people the people who do follow
leaders and expect that
but to say definitively a resource based economic modeling is simply dot resource
manjit making available what we can
uh... in them
brought us most stable way possible if if any of us were in government so to
speak
which would probably be introducing plant disciplinary teams working with
automated systems because that split second military operation
that's a great way is where is the sounds of as it is at the pentagon with
all its insane technology artificial intelligence
decision making programs these for combat
you switched all that around a resource management
and taking care of the planet and figured out strategies providing tired
in population
that's really what the government of the future would be
but as far as what was going and you know justices and all that
uh... would go a little bit like a more like a nap
uh... anup anarchy titus out because you have a you'd have the system arranged
the rules of the system become self-evident based on the approach so
it's everyone everyone the size society has to accept the basic premise of the
system they have to
realized the natural law that friend
they have to understand that makes sense for the new share the resources
they have to realize that they need to be sustainable not
you know just waste i mean these are things values that most of us have
anyway
but their theory of their contrary to what the system supports you know
bottled waters and wasting
gas guzzling huge homers india the defense countered to what's really
rational for
uh... a species like us to live on the finite planet
that's clearly rational
so the general acceptance is what makes our work sabbatical is of that nature of
we have to get people to understand what it means to be sustainable
but in the system is an outgrowth of that
so things like laws for example one of the laws of mentioned earlier laws
really patch it's something to counter an intent
that's inherent in assistants a structural fall so do all these laws on
my own tray corruption a lot of a system of first lady
mild and on that ended
deep deep logic russian law structure which is the majority of laws really
thrilled with the best which we have laws they all relate to money one way or
another
uh... it was not like tax the tax code and media executive ridiculous thing the
can't possibly comprehend as a trap meant was all it is they know that they
can do it one
but that's all a subject
the law structured instead what is first of all it is a patchwork system that and
when you realized that he devised a system to take care of itself
meaning that
it hyper bilayers too is a system of outlaws because it's taken care of
itself intrinsically
i can go on a long tangent on human behavior and
which is let's do it the debate on the intrinsic quality of uh...
what people are afraid native tenancies deposit tendencies and that's really the
core of the debate if you find that as a point of today
but everything else in
all things being equal as far as conditioning
you see my point the system it has to start design correctly doesn't need laws
bradley based on the life sequence
that you could relate to that but it's also based on
actually right based on my sequence of both the life ground and everything that
extrapolate from that
so we know what our human needs are
water
how much energy we need carbohydrates
ill read these things that can be calculated we know
the sixty of the planet what we can utilize
uh... how much we can use the dynamic equilibrium
we start to think about it in a responsible way scientifically the
entire system becomes utterly self-evident
there's various
bascially in some urgent
the fundamental fundamental ashley dudley uh... is always there you know
right now selling with argue uh...
basic foundation and that's what frankly few at him and he's been searching for
since the beginning of time
it's fine that empirical relationship but i think we finally found that
transplant in that society should be resource base
model that we're talking about does presuppose that a value shifts
has taken place just
to a large degree
which is what
uh... we are
at attempting
uh... aids
uh... we call it an evolution verses a revolution
it is a paradigm shift of its needed it because it's
this is something that
is not to be forced on anyone that
i mean that wouldn't even maintain itself
uh... you have to have people desiring s and the people involved in the movement
understand and want this now
with them but we need to try to make others come to the same conclusion
uh... through communication
uh... through talking about this shared values that we have and that's what
we're all about
and uh... just uh... note on the
the idea of years surrender his concept
as it if you removed all the laws today would be a big free for all which is
quite another to death and take each other stuff
what happens is that
the behave is a report we've reinforced in the environment
and it's not you just gotta take the the tax code and or the laws in the boxes
talks about
tomorrow and
think everyone should agree to do that
you of all out of it
because when you address the conditions that are creating the behavior
uh... sis ed for example if
you couldn't see
you know if you could no longer sd
celebrates the glories stall
on the street
reinforcement the reward
for stealing it would be acquisition of money
uh... work
whatever resource
menu when you address the environment so as needs are met
then the behaviors impacted
and then you see a reduction and what you would consider the average behavior
which allows represent
patchwork to to deal with and in the current social system so
you would see over time that has your address
a life sequence needs
you impact
behaviors that are prevalent that we have all the law enforcement prisons
uh... lisa morse overs
gives your perspective on that
i would add one thing that one thing and that could you point out as a sense of
uh... trying ph is
i was asked people go to your congress are going to the law book and just
look at every single law it's an existence and ask yourself where's the
causalities
'cause all laws assume no causality
as the sun shovel
alone
question is mainly for you peter cousin occurred to you
say something to the effect of that although acts the parmer ps are
inherently corrupt
right back at
and
given that we currently live in a monetary market system the and
idea
i'm a big supporter of the psychics movement to share about it with people
and you know i'm
totally
on board with the possibility of it
and that we live in a moment a market system now and i have
goals to be
you know successful immersed in the system in red
everything
you know thinking for a richmond twenty rodman's you know when they talk a lot
about unit the mindset of success in all that so
and channel a kind of legal mind it up like having all the empowering context
around
my entrepreneurial goals while at the same time having the awareness of the
you know what you said that uh... that the down the hall that's a commerce are
inherently crops so
i'm trying to kind of
be empowered
with my goals
in the environment and
in that in the system that
i'm in a role in now
while still being aware him that i really look things then stroll
uh... jill jokes ect
in our who's really inspired by by what you're sharing in in us like
precariously expressing love
but i uh... what's really want to do is
you know can influence the influence there is an and i have actually shared
about chat about
the resource based economy with my employer and his you know he's
very successful a multi-millionaire dodi and
totally on board with the lucky he gets it so
i don't think like built a richer
like they wouldn't not be inspired by it they get a chance that's never fixed
culture but those are those who ordered by the system tend to be
more apprehensive but not all of us had met some very poor people that are sold
not committed
but then there's will usually there's been a lack of education and they
automatically jerk reactions to say well just sounds like communism in the cisco
be like stalin
you know and then do you know this is this another element to pumps are going
yes in my question it is
do you have any advice about
have a mindset to have
to be empowered as uh... in some like to be successful system right now while
still being aware
the uh...
you know i i kind of wooden like to know more quickly mentored by saying that all
i think i can put it in or kinda way event biased at all falling axa commerce
bankrupt you can't live in this system without being corrupt
so there's there's the first point you can't patient
behave in this society without some level
of corruption are defined corruption by dishonesty
and in negligence of the environment and anything that requires negligence of
your surroundings for your own self-interest
is intrinsically corrupt whether your
raising the profit margin on a good that you sell
verses say iran shutting down of the california power grids they can trade up
their equities make money these are these are equally the same element of
the same spectrum the just different strains ones more socially acceptable
than the other because let the system is
but what i do it i i'd talk to people is because our young they are i i'd often
civil
whatever your focus is try to make it
in unbending area in a discipline that has some type of social return
uh... you know you did something green industries or of those that are doing
advanced agriculture doing energy research usually southern do with
science and engineering
southern actually create something as opposed to it showed us
product paper he keeps making amends
floating in the ocean somewhere
well you know there there's the paradigm but also the but don't beat yourself up
over it and i have the same issue i've you know i walked unique line that we
all do it and you what i do as i try to balance my life my life as a divide into
two spheres are sick and i survive i have to do something a maximalist myself
uh... but i don't like it to me i don't want to create a covers and standard
well we start feeling too
so i don't go out of my way to just keep maximizing like most people do that's
with a sense of accomplishment comes from
you know hugs of thousands and millions and millions by five capital long time
ago that
if i was to generate a nine nothing near this place it is to some audiences
uh... i i have asked the audience what if you had was that eight point five
million dollars
uh... if you had never had to someone gave you a point five million dollars
it's your birth
and he never had to submit to a corporation
uh... would you be satisfied with that which equates to roughly seventy some
tiles in dollars a year
and personal antagonism
and but they don't realize what they're doing and in a given that freedom of
association with that sort of concept
what they're saying is that there
they're willing to
lived in a in a way that's a modest so to speak at live in a way that doesn't
require the cut the constant
uh... infatuation with getting more and more which is so hideously uh...
reinforced in our system because it's always about more and more snow
not only do people have the i've had no they have the iphone and now they get
that seventy generation of the iphone of the ipod
and god knows whether i single come out next and what has to have
i mean i'm not only that obviously but i also think we go far waited for opening
windy for diverting from your point you have to be satisfied with the balance
and tried to be to end and affected
infected really by the court around you that was too costly maximizing reinforce
uh... things that are based agreed orientation since other
self-preservation also recognizing the problems like i i buy operate along
there when he regrets sacrifice
uh... because we see that it's really a social problem holistic lien that is
good effect all of us as these problems arise many of the more they more that
have been talked about tonight
keeping that knowledge to cater your your behavior as well
uh... and change that i've might reach a point where a lot of people out there
think different maximize themselves to get that that house
but the boomer generation
uh... those days are really over for the west of its all downhill from here once
once the u_s_ has downgraded its mitts bankruptcy within probably two years
uh... this suspended
crises l emerge from that i think one masti stabilization
a lot of the things way still think about their lives in getting the people
like the defense
these days are very
trait different what's on the rise into the great majority population
does that help
but come
the white house says it is and that i hear you walk a line in except where you
are in that and that in that hideous paradox that we we all who believe in a
better world the social world that
wants to help other people not just maximize yourself as you know what's in
your
self-interest to make sure everyone around you is is doing well high this is
the
clash
of values that uh... were were you know with the movement in everything else
that we're doing
we hope to didn't eat
plaque betsy were people move away from that's why it like as big a festival is
really kind of an anti
economy festival a lot of ways like alot of reform in a very much against the
system
and then they were back in the nineties i'm sorry
back in the nineties they had to be going generational the all the groups
came out with the saab golden playing in money
as all the reinforcing values everything that this system needs to prove purport
perpetuate itself we would be reversed that
in the public mind where people are disgusted by it money
the disgusted by vanity
today they're horrified that tori spelling tags
where it's a bakery cringe at the idea of having to jet spark in their
front-line because ours credibly wasteful a concept that the divers with
the ship the status orientation
and that's really the nation mine tricare