The Zeitgeist Movement LA, CA Townhall July 19th 2011 [Part 2: Q&A]

the the explosion in automation and this sort of imagine mastery of of the physical environment that that we have with me lucerne materialist legacy thinking distrib in by fossil fuels and hydrocarbon energy and without that or if there's a scarcity of that or if there's a commodity cation of that it's not based upon uh... universal ownership uh... wind much of this automation depend on or billion years of uh... the legacy fossil fuels that were burning up in nablus generation at this stage for that brings and a whole new subject of of where we are with renewables an understanding of renewables in mn advanced applications of the summit different forms of energy that we really do have an unnatural familiar with with where we are with university solar geothermal and wind different forms of radiation that are you know that are actually uh... recognize that industries excuse me we've heard mixed reviews was of course mixed reviews unless the establishment of us scientists will get very cynical on the issue but you just have to think very simply in this plenty of side is by the way they're actually very keeley pushing forward without the innovations of most of these market and the reason they push nuclear n and honey o's but studded traditionalists establishment alternative alternative they have right now laura what's the big winner hydrogen right that they're pushing the hydrogen things must leave the reason they do this to the supports it supports the infrastructure that's existed prior because that's where the market elevate comes into play it's on my permeates the the values in consciousness of all these people to talk as opposed to every single building in los angeles having built in solar panels they can easily through battery technology nserver capacitors house and power everyday to infinity is that the next four billion years if the energy was put forward to that you wouldn't even need a centralized power construction in most cases now they're did but it depends on where it what the efficiency means most homes uh... to be equipped with such things in his jock frescoes brilliant on these subjects if u i'm sure you're familiar with his work on some level but the renewable energy stuff these militarists on wonderful concepts of invention that are really been coming to fruition of course the past five years in pockets factory web site called site news dot org but should does nothing but document advancements in energy advancements in technology there for social concern there is i can say definitely no energy problem the entire we are energy everything is energy we are simply locked into this distorted paradigm that's been using hydrocarbons for so long and an infrastructure that supports a market system if we went into objective energy usage in the renewable sense maybe just a bit was right ever made sense as opposed to what we needed to make money then uh... you were difficult for what it would be an energy market would all be localize and you wouldn't have the massive multi trillion dollar energy institution that you have now and that's really what the barrier is so that original point automation can be power just like when we send spaceships into space they're all solar powered you know once they get in there you know the the debt these things are there have been there for a long time in between battery technology super to pastors and the very fact that everything is going to the sun one way or all of all of our forms of energy derived from the sun one way or another uh... you just have to put this into perspective as long as the sun is there where we're doing fine and there's a massive abundance i can assure you so i have no problems with the governor nature of automation frankly i think solar power and geothermal be the dominant uh... energy sources in the future run in the super capacitors which create redundancy uh... almost to infinity probably based on how it develops and finally there's there's this question that has less to do blodgett can we just takes were maybe does have a lot to do with logic and capacity for discerning logic versus sofas trien pulling people into a higher level paradigm people often are blocked when you can't use logic on somebody um... terminate haven't studied propositional logic in got a degree in philosophy how do you change their emotional mind by uh... i think i'm sorta hard questions rumor might have a tendency to do this on a after this i would have an answer questions first um... what i would say is or for example the psyche as media festival that were intending of what people say what's that about you know let's just sounds like some party or something i should know art has put the renaissance art has always been the initiator in my mind the man history actually uh... it could be subversion tradition but if you look back at history the initiators of new paradigm zafar boys come from a more of artistic standpoint and in rigid academics or scientists in a very there's up there's a thug overflow of ambition and speculation and that basically everything that defines the cervix perimental nature of art and why my film series is a ridge s trophy seated then there's always a have a pocket of just real stuff associates to trying to break that that hard mean that people have and the media media festival as opposed to say zeitgeist days i can stay as a straight intellectual than some of this but it's very long is is not all speakers as their intense uh... to be a festival saying okay let's try to get under people's skin with the sense of values that are associated with the intellectual stuff that we talk about so the people that we feature have a social contacts of people experience this may come out of it ideal board brainwashing but all of us are brainwashed one way or another so it's a false terminal itself because we can't possibly exist any thought process without the influence of others kind of reciprocal reinforcement that makes it viable to us over time such as trying to talk to some of the events really inducted into religion is america logic you pull out uh... they they just believe what they believe in they've established usually pre established methods of defense against anything the challenges than and the core element of most religious philosophy is oh i think western your religion it's a sense of po they got you're right there kennedy question ed so but that's the way most people think of the economic sphere they they placed a choke they have a framework of could be a big question outside it suddenly become a fringe income conspiracy theorist reba come something that is not acceptable socially and that's what keeps people have it it's really good the external view of them like a whole if i change my mind on something i might be seen as somebody who isn't center to really understand in the world around me so i can't possibly change my mind the ego thing you know uh... so these are things we have to overcome right at the uh... i don't claim to some uh... universal application or approach this but i know that art uh... is critical for a human evolution for that experimental element of it in really scientific engineering always been an art form you know it's always been the experiment minimally so i think the people as time is four there are so heartened will first hopefully be affected by the breakdown that's occurring double challenged them because of most of their values i think will be challenged as this continues table hopefully identify with some elements that will resonate you know for example no one likes to see people suffer at least i don't think most people do uh... you know it's not inherent to the condition as we have a sympathetic qualities uh... and then and then there is the uh... then there is the uh... yet then there's the mass appeal missus will is like this moment hopefully you can manifest people that skew the manifest eight mast large enough for poor people feel comfortable identifying with something that they prior might have felt it was too radical for their association and made them seem of to sit in their inner circle unit main tuesday that there is a there is a sheepish quality human behavior of tough if effed all of a star running really fast this way many he would react an instinctual ito are run with us this is the way that sort of social organism works and that even though it and that's used for manipulation of the obviously wicked wikipedia is uh... major events uh... uh... throughout the course of history do how wars are engineered lots of things about ceridian psychological pressures that create that sheepish mass appeal and that can be worked in a negative sense organi work in a positive sense you would hope that people would have the internal integrity do exist on their own objectively that doesn't work that way uh... so there is a strategy that there is uh... it it's intrinsically manipulative just like any type of conversation is the difference is is that you hope that whatever but you do to persuade people brings them in just enough where they can realize it for themselves and it's not something sheepish staying where they just believe blindly something that's exactly the opposite of what it takes to understand this movement is it really demands firm personal identification because you have everything against him otherwise consents to a certain agree to certain degree insistence the delicate balance uh... hank brown peter i just wanna say lovingly fell through your mind from france image is awesome my question is to do more with tickets brick this momentous proposing and my understanding base in the movie was it imani uh... a blanket cpan communism that kind of idea and and one kind of asking if you factually leave tank wrapping a committees country was called yugoslavia so we were all supposed to be equal and sharing everything was supposed to be a great and it was then obviously didn't work and so i was just wondering michael why do you think that what you're proposing i wasn't going to be different if you see on that was kind of try and it failed and so i was kind of thing on a bill that others eletters into this field but i'll to save that those models that existed prior they'd never had a relationship to something physical they were based on ideologies so you go back to mark's effective angles they talked about a certain view of humanity as a philosophical view that but very rarely any of that literature org deaf or not in the approach did it say okay what makes sense for human society what can we derive from a scientific why do we want to share the resource was the reasoning for it and is the is the condition that we're going to create it going to be conducive to it communism never had a chance because it wasn't working with in a monetary driven environment agree driven by many properties of environment globally anyway so it deposited there was never like people say well this is m marks wanted to have an moneyless aside a which is an exactly true but they didn't throw this out assuming such a thing at idon't etsy thing is i don't think communism really manifested anyway that it was supposed to manifest first of all if you really go back and read it and then look at the vocal ship revolution and the interests and values they had and what actually happened when the dictatorships were that's created the idea bus the idea might have been similar and she acting but this isn't about just going to quality in the sense of all it's just a nice thing to do it this is about we have to do this otherwise the instability that arises from the imbalance from the motivations that are distorted will get the better of us one way or another that big chart of debt is really an expression of a mass kind of delusion of greed and distortion many different people are manifesting intend them and they don't realize it though the words tortoises of stress that just abstract point everything we're seeing today socially that's problematic is coming from in frame of reference that's braun it has no relationship to anything tangible and communism as it was practiced was exactly the same way and it still ended up with money it's still ended up with military and police dictators in control if he didn't believe it well very often you our viewers deposing women these are very serious things that barb reminiscent of a very messed up period of time the logic behind the cyclist limit though comes from an end from what has to be in in impure kal place sab based on a floating philosophy or any assumptions granted all scientific knowledge in the sunshine some level buddy comes from the white brown says okay how do we maintain stability how do we have i really don't you go to an airport and be indeed beaten uh... croak molest exactly what does it mean to have security and then there were on the fundamental level specific your point is the quality notion really sustainably notion has to be true quality you can allow the loose notion of equality uh... to permeates some lower-class and then let the upper class do whatever they want and then to combat that the whole system has to be specifically created based around the principles that we describe related to resources with everyone understanding that thoroughly so everyone can participate in it and these these are big statements by apologizing to get more specifically uh... talked forever on it because what you think that they would have to happen globally unique and i think we're going to do and definitively station unless it happens everywhere in the next week where i global movements and soon a lot of the differences are that there's not and national um... there's not a social stratification of a ruling class and the working class uh... we're talking about uh... technical reference technical solutions solving uh... basic later problems but also bringing everyone up to the highest levels standard of living that's possible keeping things sustainable uh... given that that's what if we are sat down i really thought about it logically this makes sense for everyone and and then there's the property issue pretty calm is a more settlers no profit you know that was the stable not ever and no one really ever asked yourself everything that i could have been supposedly majority but everything everything don't ever asking why in the sense of what does that mean that we could come from it but from what environmental standpoint ise okays a release martin are mentally a finite planet the finite resources for every single human being that on an automobile they tried made the ten percent of day at the most these these rationales say okay we the society the political supporters bus devise a system of sharing these these hurricanes are these the rationale becomes so that's the property issues and religious nation a philosophical loaded associative known tony ninja dealership is is this is about so-called camilo shipping abstraction it's about what we have to do the biggest animals we can allowing for the most people to have access to the things that they need and beyond and how do we create a system that brings that together great that we know that dizzy paras you know the targeting arrangement that works really well in new york red that men should not have antigua and can certificate everyone carina so i have a couple questions are first was uh... the main role of government or house government hamilton a resource based economy and second was and he says the government you know in this current paradigm in this in arkansas debate handle you know the lawmaking and legislation and defining morality basically for all of us uh... how is it how is that handled in a resource base akamai basically how would a resource base called me define morality and you know enforce it if need be natural law that's what the basis of it is but that natural i would be well we all have in common mode uh... as opposed to uh... one imposed on us by governmental system but i would say that you arrive at the morality or by put it more specifically is values it arriving a values from something tangible as upset as opposed to something that's just traditionally presented to you two people value a lot of strange things in our culture from religion to to patriotism you know to their leaders in into a lot of strange things like fascination with the celebrities and with all these things that have been imposed on people they create that gesture that reinforce itself government is a huge concept though you know government as as we do a lot with a lot of tree but on this that so that's difficult to describe a singular way but what you want is a systems approach to risk management were government actually doesn't exist in the realm that we think of today you have what is what is really the facilitation of government really at its core issue to remove all the layers of nonsense all the wars all the things that are brought out of yes but who gets what baskets how is it has economics governments it is really a formal should be the management of an economic economy nothing more the but what we're doing his will come at a history of dynasties in in emperors in our system there's just an echo of this early a few lustig basic basically feel istic type of strathclyde systems so they get over that girls extremely huge thing because of the values that every grain to that and then the people the people who do follow leaders and expect that but to say definitively a resource based economic modeling is simply dot resource manjit making available what we can uh... in them brought us most stable way possible if if any of us were in government so to speak which would probably be introducing plant disciplinary teams working with automated systems because that split second military operation that's a great way is where is the sounds of as it is at the pentagon with all its insane technology artificial intelligence decision making programs these for combat you switched all that around a resource management and taking care of the planet and figured out strategies providing tired in population that's really what the government of the future would be but as far as what was going and you know justices and all that uh... would go a little bit like a more like a nap uh... anup anarchy titus out because you have a you'd have the system arranged the rules of the system become self-evident based on the approach so it's everyone everyone the size society has to accept the basic premise of the system they have to realized the natural law that friend they have to understand that makes sense for the new share the resources they have to realize that they need to be sustainable not you know just waste i mean these are things values that most of us have anyway but their theory of their contrary to what the system supports you know bottled waters and wasting gas guzzling huge homers india the defense countered to what's really rational for uh... a species like us to live on the finite planet that's clearly rational so the general acceptance is what makes our work sabbatical is of that nature of we have to get people to understand what it means to be sustainable but in the system is an outgrowth of that so things like laws for example one of the laws of mentioned earlier laws really patch it's something to counter an intent that's inherent in assistants a structural fall so do all these laws on my own tray corruption a lot of a system of first lady mild and on that ended deep deep logic russian law structure which is the majority of laws really thrilled with the best which we have laws they all relate to money one way or another uh... it was not like tax the tax code and media executive ridiculous thing the can't possibly comprehend as a trap meant was all it is they know that they can do it one but that's all a subject the law structured instead what is first of all it is a patchwork system that and when you realized that he devised a system to take care of itself meaning that it hyper bilayers too is a system of outlaws because it's taken care of itself intrinsically i can go on a long tangent on human behavior and which is let's do it the debate on the intrinsic quality of uh... what people are afraid native tenancies deposit tendencies and that's really the core of the debate if you find that as a point of today but everything else in all things being equal as far as conditioning you see my point the system it has to start design correctly doesn't need laws bradley based on the life sequence that you could relate to that but it's also based on actually right based on my sequence of both the life ground and everything that extrapolate from that so we know what our human needs are water how much energy we need carbohydrates ill read these things that can be calculated we know the sixty of the planet what we can utilize uh... how much we can use the dynamic equilibrium we start to think about it in a responsible way scientifically the entire system becomes utterly self-evident there's various bascially in some urgent the fundamental fundamental ashley dudley uh... is always there you know right now selling with argue uh... basic foundation and that's what frankly few at him and he's been searching for since the beginning of time it's fine that empirical relationship but i think we finally found that transplant in that society should be resource base model that we're talking about does presuppose that a value shifts has taken place just to a large degree which is what uh... we are at attempting uh... aids uh... we call it an evolution verses a revolution it is a paradigm shift of its needed it because it's this is something that is not to be forced on anyone that i mean that wouldn't even maintain itself uh... you have to have people desiring s and the people involved in the movement understand and want this now with them but we need to try to make others come to the same conclusion uh... through communication uh... through talking about this shared values that we have and that's what we're all about and uh... just uh... note on the the idea of years surrender his concept as it if you removed all the laws today would be a big free for all which is quite another to death and take each other stuff what happens is that the behave is a report we've reinforced in the environment and it's not you just gotta take the the tax code and or the laws in the boxes talks about tomorrow and think everyone should agree to do that you of all out of it because when you address the conditions that are creating the behavior uh... sis ed for example if you couldn't see you know if you could no longer sd celebrates the glories stall on the street reinforcement the reward for stealing it would be acquisition of money uh... work whatever resource menu when you address the environment so as needs are met then the behaviors impacted and then you see a reduction and what you would consider the average behavior which allows represent patchwork to to deal with and in the current social system so you would see over time that has your address a life sequence needs you impact behaviors that are prevalent that we have all the law enforcement prisons uh... lisa morse overs gives your perspective on that i would add one thing that one thing and that could you point out as a sense of uh... trying ph is i was asked people go to your congress are going to the law book and just look at every single law it's an existence and ask yourself where's the causalities 'cause all laws assume no causality as the sun shovel alone question is mainly for you peter cousin occurred to you say something to the effect of that although acts the parmer ps are inherently corrupt right back at and given that we currently live in a monetary market system the and idea i'm a big supporter of the psychics movement to share about it with people and you know i'm totally on board with the possibility of it and that we live in a moment a market system now and i have goals to be you know successful immersed in the system in red everything you know thinking for a richmond twenty rodman's you know when they talk a lot about unit the mindset of success in all that so and channel a kind of legal mind it up like having all the empowering context around my entrepreneurial goals while at the same time having the awareness of the you know what you said that uh... that the down the hall that's a commerce are inherently crops so i'm trying to kind of be empowered with my goals in the environment and in that in the system that i'm in a role in now while still being aware him that i really look things then stroll uh... jill jokes ect in our who's really inspired by by what you're sharing in in us like precariously expressing love but i uh... what's really want to do is you know can influence the influence there is an and i have actually shared about chat about the resource based economy with my employer and his you know he's very successful a multi-millionaire dodi and totally on board with the lucky he gets it so i don't think like built a richer like they wouldn't not be inspired by it they get a chance that's never fixed culture but those are those who ordered by the system tend to be more apprehensive but not all of us had met some very poor people that are sold not committed but then there's will usually there's been a lack of education and they automatically jerk reactions to say well just sounds like communism in the cisco be like stalin you know and then do you know this is this another element to pumps are going yes in my question it is do you have any advice about have a mindset to have to be empowered as uh... in some like to be successful system right now while still being aware the uh... you know i i kind of wooden like to know more quickly mentored by saying that all i think i can put it in or kinda way event biased at all falling axa commerce bankrupt you can't live in this system without being corrupt so there's there's the first point you can't patient behave in this society without some level of corruption are defined corruption by dishonesty and in negligence of the environment and anything that requires negligence of your surroundings for your own self-interest is intrinsically corrupt whether your raising the profit margin on a good that you sell verses say iran shutting down of the california power grids they can trade up their equities make money these are these are equally the same element of the same spectrum the just different strains ones more socially acceptable than the other because let the system is but what i do it i i'd talk to people is because our young they are i i'd often civil whatever your focus is try to make it in unbending area in a discipline that has some type of social return uh... you know you did something green industries or of those that are doing advanced agriculture doing energy research usually southern do with science and engineering southern actually create something as opposed to it showed us product paper he keeps making amends floating in the ocean somewhere well you know there there's the paradigm but also the but don't beat yourself up over it and i have the same issue i've you know i walked unique line that we all do it and you what i do as i try to balance my life my life as a divide into two spheres are sick and i survive i have to do something a maximalist myself uh... but i don't like it to me i don't want to create a covers and standard well we start feeling too so i don't go out of my way to just keep maximizing like most people do that's with a sense of accomplishment comes from you know hugs of thousands and millions and millions by five capital long time ago that if i was to generate a nine nothing near this place it is to some audiences uh... i i have asked the audience what if you had was that eight point five million dollars uh... if you had never had to someone gave you a point five million dollars it's your birth and he never had to submit to a corporation uh... would you be satisfied with that which equates to roughly seventy some tiles in dollars a year and personal antagonism and but they don't realize what they're doing and in a given that freedom of association with that sort of concept what they're saying is that there they're willing to lived in a in a way that's a modest so to speak at live in a way that doesn't require the cut the constant uh... infatuation with getting more and more which is so hideously uh... reinforced in our system because it's always about more and more snow not only do people have the i've had no they have the iphone and now they get that seventy generation of the iphone of the ipod and god knows whether i single come out next and what has to have i mean i'm not only that obviously but i also think we go far waited for opening windy for diverting from your point you have to be satisfied with the balance and tried to be to end and affected infected really by the court around you that was too costly maximizing reinforce uh... things that are based agreed orientation since other self-preservation also recognizing the problems like i i buy operate along there when he regrets sacrifice uh... because we see that it's really a social problem holistic lien that is good effect all of us as these problems arise many of the more they more that have been talked about tonight keeping that knowledge to cater your your behavior as well uh... and change that i've might reach a point where a lot of people out there think different maximize themselves to get that that house but the boomer generation uh... those days are really over for the west of its all downhill from here once once the u_s_ has downgraded its mitts bankruptcy within probably two years uh... this suspended crises l emerge from that i think one masti stabilization a lot of the things way still think about their lives in getting the people like the defense these days are very trait different what's on the rise into the great majority population does that help but come the white house says it is and that i hear you walk a line in except where you are in that and that in that hideous paradox that we we all who believe in a better world the social world that wants to help other people not just maximize yourself as you know what's in your self-interest to make sure everyone around you is is doing well high this is the clash of values that uh... were were you know with the movement in everything else that we're doing we hope to didn't eat plaque betsy were people move away from that's why it like as big a festival is really kind of an anti economy festival a lot of ways like alot of reform in a very much against the system and then they were back in the nineties i'm sorry back in the nineties they had to be going generational the all the groups came out with the saab golden playing in money as all the reinforcing values everything that this system needs to prove purport perpetuate itself we would be reversed that in the public mind where people are disgusted by it money the disgusted by vanity today they're horrified that tori spelling tags where it's a bakery cringe at the idea of having to jet spark in their front-line because ours credibly wasteful a concept that the divers with the ship the status orientation and that's really the nation mine tricare