QA_PJ_Salvador_290711
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Questions and Answer with Peter Joseph
There is a audience here.
- You suck!
[unidentifiable talks and Laughs]
Totalitarian communist! [laughs]
Ok! [Indistiguished talk]
ok!
Peter, we have a question here.
Magnus Young asks us...
" I watched the movie zeitgeist
and I think the idea is very interesting...
but I cannot see its approach put into practice
so how can we build an inicial city?
how can we achieve emancipation?
and sover...sovereignty ?
sovereingnty of a territory?
which resource would be used to build the first city?
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I...this system will not be created
by monetary means, because
the very nature of using money and
all the inhibiting factors that go along
with using money would never allow something with
this efficency to come out. and if it did, would be some many
billions of hundreds of billions of dollars even for just a
a small little region, because the scarcity in the system
magnifies the value so much
that you have to go straight to resources. where the resources are.
how to manage them, how to extract them
how to make sure that what you're doing is sustainable
so, it wouldnt happen in a monetary system
to answer that part of the question, as far as the initial city is important
to remind that the initial city concept were for Jacques Fresco
is not a mutiple living. They won't live in this city because...
it would be, it would be...
invariably..the barbarians would be at the gates...
if you will...you know...and just as with the social
system that's been exeperimented within the past
always met with high degree of diversity
from other social systems
specially in a world of globalization, today everyone
wants to take out every leader who wants to make something social for the people
not every, but the west. The dominat powers
so you remember that in Zeitgeist addedum with john Perkins the economist
that makes a very exclusive case about that
.......so...
the transition and other things I've spoken of here
...uh....have to come after
basicaly a period of where the system fails
and people were willing to work on a different level
it wont trasition fluidly out of the monetary system
I just..I just...I don't see how it could..
it would be too expensive...
it would be fought left and right...it would be fought left and right anyway...
but the process generally speaking as I stated earlier,
for another question, was; your have to build the awareness
and then you have to show the world
how you can technically change things through some type of test
or modeling or..
like a tridimentional blue print system
and that's why the think tank that we've talked about
would be very effective because people would be able to see
how their origin could be adapted to a
high efficiency logically sustainable
technicalogical advanced society
where you can go into Salvador
and show the people, show the government that
this exist, how to up date the system
now, they are not gonna be able to afford to do it
which is why we have to get out of the system of money use
but at least they would know that it is possible and they would know...
as soon as you are able to know what the resources are, remember the living capacity of the earth
because we don't have that information publicly available
because this is all...it is all as proprietary knowledge of the corporations
and they don't want to be out there because
that would give people insight
into the value of the resources and they want to manipulate that, mostly
in avarage, to keep that artificial
so......into the caring capacity of the earth where everything is
then, we build the ground up approach to
apply the technology to the areas to make them efficient
to support the populations
once that's understood, then we know
the cost factor, that I garantee it would be astronomical
based on the way the system is run today
'cause anyone is trying to use cost efficiency, so I can go to a lot different tangents
let me make sure I didnt miss anything, the emancipation of
sovereignty of a territory, that's a good question! why would they need
the government wanna give up the nature in sovereignty
of their little productive land to protect
and that would come from a bio social pressure,
Im sure, because they are
gonna realize that they are gonna heve to use resources
they are gonna have to find collaborations with other countries that have
other resources that they don't have. Which they already do with globalization
you know, but..it is
still in competitive. It's not sharing. It's so funny
how the system uses competition to try
and create a sharing model,
you know, that's exactly what it is because anyone knows
we have to share the planet's resources one way or another but
the system uses the opposite concept of sharing. It's about competing,
taking and taking advantage and
yet some how it is supposed to work out
it is so amazingly contradictory
yes...
so, I think I've answered all his questions
-Here, Tarcisio Cardoso asks us; We are in phase of promoting the ideas
of the movement
when we began the...of production
in other words when people will
actually stop promoting the
tzm and create products and services
that will actually help people
when will we stop promoting and
actually start to create and produce ?
uh, because it is a
global idea...
really, it would have to be when the world have some
common conection and realization of the concept
as dramatic and complex as that seems
and you know, we could have industries
attempt to produce certain things within the monetary system
but it could only go so far...uh...you know..
the question seems to have a slight degree of misunderstanding
because, we are probably
not the ones that will be producing per se
it is when the system is generating that
it will allow that type of efficiency to emerge
on a global scale and it is such a gigantic thing to talk about,
to think about, but I'd say that's...
in certain ...
in certain aspects...
there could be pockets of efficiency that emerge through subsidization
which I hope will be the next step
when governments...when things get really bad
and they stop using money and they start going
direct to the resources, meaning they start subsidize the
corporation extensively for the sake of accomplishing goals
they simply will not gonna be able to accomplish through the project of the free market
that will be the first step towards
this type of system
when someone decidies to build, you know
sustainable infra structure not because of cost efficiency
or not restricted to cost efficency but just to do it
knowing that they have to
and that the sustainability of the society depends on it.
I see that as a steppingstone of a possibility. Do you know what I mean?
It's so bad when they realize that have to just do what is right
as I would say
the most efficient things that we know, most efficient use of resources
and design that we know at the time not being inhibited by
cost efficiency. If that step occours that would be the first thing
that would be the first thing. But, when that will happen?
It is probably...
the failure of the system will have to continue. As long as
people still respect to the free market and free market anarchy
and this idea of anyone can do anything
if they have enough money as long as
this respect our way to lead we have a long way to go. Realisticly.
But fortunately, it's been realized that the system
has its flaws and I've seen
more upheaval across the world now, more comments been made
against the system that I've ever seen in my life time
and when I look back historically, I had never seen this historically either
even in the earlies like
Bolshevists and Marx stuff and they really didnt have ..????...with the system
because of the greed issues and the everything else
they really didnt look at it from a causal stand point
of the levels of destruction and
self implosion that it is seen today...so...
it is an unanswerable question, but
all this things I've mentioned have to happen before hand, you know?
it's...again...I keep repeating myself everyone's to know
there's no other way to answer it. It's just a
step by step process of realization which will be coupled with the sense of collapse
with the pressure and then
hopefully people will begging to approach things scientifically as opposed monetarely
as opposed to use just money
and what money would allow and then, that would be the first steps
.
- ok! Another member..uh... asks here..
uh..what do your think of
the media cover of the death of Osama Bin Laden and don't you think
that media should "questionate" more
the absence of evidence of this death?
oh,...we...as far as the media cover itself we released
on a global level. A press release. - Yeah, I remember.
and that was just to condemn a sort of
celebration of the death of some man
as though first of all the death means anything out side of some catharsis
revenge, and second of all
the very concept of celebration
of someone's death, specially by the state
which, states has always been like a parental figure
you know, when the state does something
people tend to identify with that naturally, So
when the state can do this type of things, it really gives people a sense of vengence
or a distorted sense,
or the need for a vendetta. That's sick. That's super sick.
but as far as the element of the question...
about the absence, well, yeah, I'd say
there's nothing more idiotic than this concept
that they buried him at the sea because of slamic law
first of all where's the slamic law that they burry anyone at the sea?
I have never heard of theat in my life
they have to burry with extra number of hours, so they buried'em at the sea
first of all it is not really burying. They put'em down
way of the ocean. But I am amused there's a diver that is actually
looking for him. I heard about that. -Really?
yes, Im really hoping that he succeds to find nothing which
I'm sure he will. Of course, then they will just say: "well he didnt look
in the right place!", you know, most likely he won't find anything
I dont know, I mean, it is so difficult. You can speculate all day long
but I think it is pretty obvious that they're hiding something.
If they really caught him, if they really did this,
they wouldnt through him in the ocean. They'd have his head
his head on a spike and they'd walk through New York City
That's how sick the government really is and they use
of this need for revenge and vendetta
because it helps them promote the wars
and division and everything else that underlies another war in terrorism
and eventually leads to emperialism and
...?????? of acquisition
and all the things we know so well.
but the whole thing is deeply suspicious, obviously.
-Ok! Another question...
from Robson Coutinho. He asks here:
"He watched your lecture and when you mention sociopathology
as a tendency to get
into a "plutocracy"
Right...Or plutonomy, right.
-Don't you think it is time that
we demand a major change
in society before since the average citizen no longer consider the economic status?"
Obviously yes.
I think that the base of we are all doing is
abviously demanding a major changing
so, it is sort of evidently surprise
that they would have asked that
That's all the entire movement is really about, but as far as the issue of plutocracy
or plutonomy
just to...
there's so much money moving in the upper roll 10, 1%
of the US economy that
on paper it looks like the economy is doing well.
and this is why most financial interests,
and this is publicized by citibanks in their internal memos
which is why we noticed it.
and because there's so much money moving on the top, so on paper
it looks good. So the average citizen as he alludes to, she alludes to
has become obsolete.
and I think we see that anyway.No one is doing something to help the poor.
in fact, they have been more opressed than ever.
eventually, as the system tends to fail
the austerity measures,
the refinancing things will occur, will always go to the poor
basically means they are economically irrelevant anyway.
the austerity measures are oppressing the poor
and they will always assume they can't tax the rich
because XXXX industry and unemployment and that's the non sense that's been carried over
with the reduced taxation for the rich and extensive taxation
for the middle classes. At least in the US. It might be different for another countries
It might be different for another countries
Obviously, we will all try to combat that
as much as we can. I'm amused, frankly, by the fact that
you know, most of the GDP
now, is actually driven
by a very small percentage of people
moving money around and these are the same people that make money of
the stock market that rises the inflation
...That's an inflationary market, you know what I mean?
the more money that is produced, that's why I got XXX
quantity easing program and all the money
that they have dumped into the economy
and why stock market have continued to rise
up until a certain point. that's where the money goes.
goes in the bank, in the market and xxx the rich
that..what..
that's what people should expect from that. Beacuse it is abviously failed
nothing really works, so... -OK.
-Another simple question here: Do you...
what do you think about permaculture?
-Do you know what permaculture is?
-permaculture.
when they grow only one thing in a particular region, right?
-I really don't know exactly what permaculture is.
-The general idea is that you cultivate
basic crops in
more...a kind of resembling organic
symbiosis
oh, I'm sorry, I am confusing the term with monoculture
...permaculture...permaculture...
I've never actually study the specifics about permaculture, but
you know, you're referencing...
obviously, based in the way you just described it
as far as it's been approached to organicaly, it is obviously a good thing.
anything that...It doesn't take a name or a
particular type of approach to realize
the very nature of everything
should be clean and organic and be grown
with the highest consideration
of nutrient development because of the GMO's
and all the things that is put into the system
you end up with this kind of nutritionless like
tomato and ...
you know...the agricultural development
through industry is nothing but the worst thing...
...how limited the nutrients and the development is
in other words it keeps more and more ...(styful?)
regarding the quality of its goods so
I can't really respond to that directly
but I would say that, honestly, in the future
I think that hydroponics and aeroponics
which I think it fall into the category
It's just a particular type. It doesn't have to be based on soil, right?
Actually, if I'm not mistaken
it is based on soil
soil, right!
...you kind of organize plants in a natural way
where they're in groups so the pest don't get to them
because they stay clustered in certain groups
Ok, so now I remember
it is using natural processes
which is actually an organic farm using a simple but profound system
in a state where it is using cows and chickens, farming
in a very beautiful simbiosys, where everything is used without waste of products
and they feed and everything else in a perfect simbiotic system
A system's approach to all forms of agriculture development
rarher is farming, animal production, food production...
really!Why would you want
to do anything different?
so, thats what I would say in respect to that.
- ok, next question is...
"- Tell me about your next movie
Zeitgeis Beyond The Pale." [sighs]
[Sighs] I was hesitating to decribe that...
because...it is still in development
but what I would say is
that this concept was actually before Moving Forward.
Before I came up with that
this kind of more simplistic way of check
making this a very simple sort of vignette
kind of narrative where specific subjects are broad up in a very isolated way
because there are many chapters in the movie
and there will take singular points
I probably will talk about economy and materialism
and then industry and then politics
and then government
which I separated from politics
and there will be a series of vignette like that
coupled with adramatic narrative
there will be a live action with a hero character
there will be a new hero character that undergos
through the process of the film a realization that essencially,
without being explicit about it, gravitates this character towards
the needs to join, basically, the movement
and to promotes sustainable ideas
and to work to try to ...
the current system for the better
and what I realized as I mentined before
is that I can fit this perfectly
as in time before the climaxing
the Zeitgeis moving Forward
where everybody is dumping the money out
so the concept is, this development is, excuse me
the person has actually become part
of the crowd. tha's actually the final scene. that I should give it way, I might change it.
but when she realizes it, it all comes together,
and then she finds herself in the middle of this protest crowd
she has her money and that will probably be something
to affect the climax scene
but it will probably change quite dramaticaly through times
I probably will change it completely. I probably shouldnt have said that much
but there will be a series of target work...
that will be a simpler work
there won't be an interview based piece either
I'll go back to the kind of driving
musical style gestural style I had in the first film
there's a very strong musical approach
intended to meant that too
in the first it wasnt that explicit but in a way it will be abstract too
I think that the reason why the first film is still popular
to the general audience, then the other ones,
apart from the kind of controversy and all the stuff of chanllenges
there's a narative that really hold on to
they always say to me; " Oh, I started seing the first one I coudn't stop!"
but they don't say that about Moving Forward, you know,
they say; "well I watched the first chapter and then I got to the second one later" because that's long
and it is more a tradicional documentary
so I'm trying to harness that power of musical gesture
...and that sort of phrasing that
I almost did it ...
captured in the fir first film. I'm wanting that back
and it will be a lot shorter
it will be like an hour and a half, liberally shorter
really hard hitting, and it goes straight down the line
very little filler, if you will
very straight forward
- ok, of of the last questions here; uh..
"- Do you think theres any relationship between...
anarchism and Zeitgeist Movement?"
... NO. No, because...well, it depends on the way
you define anarchy
anarchism. Anarchism?
- yes. But uh...Anarchy is an idea that
assumes that everyone...
lets imagine that all of us
would believe in anarchy
all of us in this room and
and we went to...we went to...
let me see an exemple...
we went into
a factory of some sort. None of us has any idea of
how to operate anything. None of us has been educated to
use any of these machinary of...i dont know...
say it is a hydroponic farm
and none of us knows this specific subject, but since we all believe in anarchy
at this fundamental level, we just decide to hit all the buttons down
to see what happens
and that obviously wouldnt work because
the concept of anarchy means disorder,
again, this is hugely semantic, I've had many arguments
with people who think this is anarchy
and anarchy is redifined by almost everyone I read
typically is a general disrespect for order
or any type of influence, or any type of governance
and the idea the we could all just completely be free
and everything goes and somehow it will all work out
I really think that, frankly, free market is a form of anarchy
and it is in a bad way
...another forms of anarchy, 'cause if you look the definitions of anarchy
there are so many and there are so many subtexts
of anarchy, it is ridiculous and
I don't really take any of them into account
because it doesnt really explain anything
so I would say explicitly no, for that basic reason. The Zeitgeist Movement...
What it is advocated in a Resource Based Economy is
really a larger form of ordering
but ordering based on what we understand scientificaly
in fact, in a sense, the processes become more rigid
but that doesn't have anything to do with us
it has to do simple with how the system was oriented to provide for us
we are so indoctrinated to be fearfull
of anyone imposing on us because with think they are gonna control us
and it has to go and tha fear is really what the anarchy notion comes out.
It is really against system control
like government as it's tradicionally known
and not how we produces and not how economics
true economics meaning how you orient the household
or how you orient the plant resources
how you navegate and how you allocate resources
all these things become self evident
IF your goal is trully be sustainable and provide
for the human population. If it ISN'T your goal
then it would be a different approach
and people can be jingoistic
and everyone would have a different view. That's what we do. we're a competitive society.
Not based on any type of help to people from another contries
it is all restricted, it is tribalistic.
so,to sumarize that
I would say that
Anarchy as
a poetic concept is a lot of fun to think about, it opens the door
for a lot of new information. So I always have a lot of fun discussing things
with people who consider this anarchy, 'couse they do have an open mindness
but until we all share
the common ground as I mentioned earlier
and see the need for a obvious scientific orientation
in our hability to create produce and distribute
we are lost and none of this things would
comprise anarchy. They couldn't.
There's a natural order
that has to be utilized in respect to it.
you know. It sounds so difficult because
everyone when they hear that
they automatically assume that's an imposition
that's a dictatorship, which is why I state in the film
"nature is a dictatorship. You can either listen to it an align
or you can suffer the consequences." 'Cause, you know
I can assume I can fly and jump out off this building
but nature is not gonna treat me very well
with that assumption, no matter how much I walk through it
the analogy is that I'm walking against the corrent
you can sit there and push against some strong corrent
like a Tsunami or you might as well
pick up your surf board and go along with it, because you really
can't fight any of this so...
but it is really a political stand point, but Im not political
it is really an enviromental respect
and aligning ourselves with the natural law and that's
intrinsicaly the opposite of anarchy. - Ok! Thank you!
Sure! Thank YOU!
well, there's a question that I was
going to ask you, it doesnt have to be on video, but maybe it would be interesting.
Ok, sure. - ...To record it also. Yeah, we're already talking so..
let me see if I can manage this....
yes, ok
uh...
there's a kind of uh...
project the we're trying to get of the groud in Porto Alegre
which is start talking to
uh...
non governmental organizations - NGO's
and I don't know, enviromental institutions, i don't know
I was to mention Green Peace, but smaller ones
Sure, sure.
Approach them
and say; Hi, we're from the Zeitgeist movement
maybe you haven't heard from us
maybe we can talk and start working together, someway, somehow
because we know the relevance of those organizations
to keep the world working right now
but we also need to go fo the broader view
which is what the movement brings
I just wanted to know what you think of it and
have you heard if someone
is doing that already in some other part of the world
in some other chapter maybe? I've heard suggestions
-sure. To aprroach NGO's and
other activist groups, as well
Obviously, why would we put that down, you know?
but just remember, as you pointed out, there's a larger context
that needs to be respected here.
That's why Im really excited about the XXXX concept
and working with these other non profit's that deal with helping people resorces