WIMTWO

- Hi, everyone. Welcome to our broadcast. Up till now, we have been working on all the pieces. So we've done the free stack, we've done the hand stack. And then, in the last episode, we talked about movement and how to train good movement. In this episode, what we're going to do is start putting it all together. And what you're going to see is that, as much as you might have trained each piece, when you put it all together, it's something in itself that has to be trained, joining all the pieces together. The other thing we're going to be looking at is working puppies in groups, because working them alone is very different from working them with other puppies. So we have some volunteers, here, today, who are going to help be our little demo dog show. So, yeah, here they are. So here's-- Annie Glaser's leading the pack. Annie has one of our puppies, Naboo. And this is Heidi Clayton, she's going to be showing one of her own puppies, Sushi. And this is our judge, Karen Iacobellis. Karen is a junior handler judge, and she trains-- she teaches junior handling. And she and her daughter breed Vizslas, very successfully, under the carriage and kennel name. And she has a real passion for handling and teaching junior handling. So we're really fortunate to have her with us. She's going to give you-- us a lot of insight into the handling process and what the judge sees. So, OK, ladies, why don't you get your dogs ready. And Karen and I are going to talk a little bit about ring procedure. So I want to talk to you a little bit about ring procedure, even though this episode is not about ring procedure, per se. We're going to do another episode, after this, where we actually take you from-- everything from picking up your number to where to stand to get your prize. So we're not really talking a lot about that, per se, but we are going to introduce it as it relates to training and training yourself and your dog in the ring. So Karen, every judge has to do the same thing, basically. They have to-- they have to consistently examine-- you know, go over the dog, examine the mouth, check for testicles, move them all around, watch their front and rear movement. But they-- do they do it all in the same order? - No, they-- they don't usually have to. They sometimes bring them in and line everybody up, usually in catalog order. - Mm hm. - Some judges walk down the line. Some judges-- - So they're looking at it from the side, you mean? - Yeah, some. Or they'll stop in the front and then go to the side. - Oh, that's tricky. - Yes. [LAUGHTER] So you have to be-- you have to really be on and watch. Some judges will just let you-- check you-- check you in, get in line, and then move you around. And the first time around, it's just to make sure that everybody is sound. - Mm hm. But you're always making an impression, right? - Absolutely. Absolutely. - So that first time they go around, they all go around together as a group? - Yes. - Or-- OK. - Yes. Usually, they'll put-- usually-- most of the time I see that they all move around together. - And then, does the judge usually look in one area of the ring? - Yes, usually. They-- usually, they're moving in a group. And I just know, for myself, too, there's usually a dog that will catch my eye, and I will maybe follow that dog a little bit more than others. - Mm hm. Mm hm. - But you should always, you know, be watching where the judge is when you're going to be moving along. - See where the judge is looking? - Yes. - Because I've noticed, a lot of times, the judges will tend to-- especially very experienced judges, will tend to just look like at one spot. - Yes. - And so you know-- - So you-- that's like the stage. - That's like the stage. So you know that's your spot. - Exactly. That's where you have to be on. - Again, even though, technically, they're just checking for soundness. - Yes. - Because the judge has to excuse any dog that's lame. - Right. - I mean that's the first pass that they had to do that. - Exactly. - But you said something I thought was really very profound, that you said you-- really count how many steps you have in front of the judge. - Mm hm. Yes, exactly. - And you said, it's so few, right? - Right. Exactly. You only get a short amount of time to really be on. So you really have to try to hit it right as you're moving past your judge. - OK. That's-- that's great. - And it's, again, the other thing, too, like first impressions. - Right. - You know? Like if there's a dog or two that's going to really stick out. - Catch your eye? - Yes. - And this is really interesting, though, talking to Karen, because now Karen and her daughter breed vizsla, which are-- it's a movement breed, wouldn't you say more? - Yes. - Whereas with the-- - A sporting dog. - --with the terriers, it tends to be a type breed, more about type. And so one very experienced bull terrier judge told me, Jane, listen, when I walk down the line, when I-- I already know who I'm going to put up. I don't even need to move the dogs. And it's, well, our dogs are naked as are yours. But it's not-- with our dogs, it's really not usually about movement as it is about type. And that is coat, head, eye, ear. Not as much with vizsla, right? - No. - It's more-- it's a-- it's a hunting dog. - Yes. It's actually-- it's actually a dog that needs to be able to perform what it was bred to do. - Right. - And that is to be able to hunt all day long. - Mm hm. - So they have to be structurally correct and move, effortlessly. - And bull terriers have to do what they're bred to do, too, which is to look great-- - [LAUGHS] - --and be funny, which they do. OK, so-- so what would be like a-- a normal ring procedure? What would you like line them up here and then bring them around and over to here? - Yes. - Does that sound good? - Yeah, that sounds fine. - S0-- so, OK. So now, let me just bring something else up. And again, you're going to have to kind of imagine this a little bit. Because when you go to a dog show-- and this is review for a lot of you, but I know there are some people that haven't even been to a dog show yet. So I'm going to go over this. There'll be-- there'll be dogs in the ring. You hope that your judge will be judging other dogs in the ring before you. And the reason you hope this is that, as you're waiting outside, you want to see what that judge's ring procedure is. Because, again, like some judge-- we didn't even get to the end of your ring procedure. - Right. - So let's talk more. We'll talk more about it. But judges can vary in their ring procedure, and you want to be ready and know where you need to go next. Because, if you're prepared, you'll never feel rushed. If you know-- but if you're standing there, waiting, and waiting for someone to tell you what to do, then you have to scramble and get into position. And that's going to make you feel very rushed. Now, all that having been said, that doesn't mean that, if you have a puppy, it's all going to work out for you. But it will always be better. - [LAUGHS] - The best outcome is to have the time to prepare. So Karen, let's talk about this again. So we set up the dogs here. We move them for soundness. And they stopped, lined up here. - Yes. - And then now what happens? - So at this point, I would come out and maybe take another look at the line. - OK - Or I would just start to examine my first exhibit. - So you-- so, as an exhibitor, I should know enough to step up-- - You should have-- yes. - And I may say to you, like, stack your dog. - Or even before you leave-- - Yes. - --you'll say. But as an exhibitor, so that's the first thing that you really need to know. - Or I would give you that information. Take them all around. And the first dog's set up for me. - Set up here? - Yes. - So that's what that means-- - Exactly. - --is set up? OK. So-- so then, the first dog-- so I'm the first dog. I'm set up. And now what happens? - OK, so I would examine. - Mm hm. - Take a look back. - Mm hm. - Come in front. - Mm hm. - Have you show me the bite. Go over-- - Now is that always true, that I'm show the bite? - No. - Sometimes the judge will. - More and more, more judges are asking you to show the bite. So that's another thing that you have to be prepared to do. Because, for many years, judges-- most judges looked at the bite. - Why did they stop doing that, you think? - There was the flu that was going around. And it transmit-- yeah. - Yeah, touching. - So we didn't want to transmit from mouth to mouth. - And it makes sense. - Yes. I think it's a great idea. - I do, too, yeah. - But you have to be ready to do that. You can't assume that the judge is going to look at that mouth. Another reason to be prepared and watch to see-- - And have watched to see if the judge is looking or not. - --how the judge is going to do that. - OK. - Exactly. - OK. So now you've gone over my dog. - So now I've gone over your dog. And just, we'll do a down and back. For instance-- - Mm hm. - --I will send you to that corner. - And just for-- and normally, you would do the diagonal. But let's go this way just because Mark is there. - OK. - But just so noted, that can also vary. - Exactly. - Sometimes it can be this way. More often, I would say it's diagonal. - Yes. - Because you have a little longer. But we're going to do here today. - OK, so if we-- even if we did a triangle this way. We could-- - Well, we'll do both. - OK. - But, yeah, let's do the down and back first. - OK, so the down-- - Mm hm. - --and then back to me. - Mm hm. - And then I would ask them-- at this point, I wouldn't do a down and back in triangle, but-- - No, no. I'm saying we'll show the triangle. - We'll show it. And then from that point, I would ask them to take their dog all the way around. - OK. - And that would be all the way around the ring-- Mm hm. --to the end of the line. - OK. All right, so that would be one, typical-- typical-- - Ring procedure. - --ring procedure. I mean-- and I mean, I don't know what, really, variations there would be other then it might be a triangle, which we reviewed-- we did last time. But we will review after we do this one. - You seem to do that more in your breed than we do with the sporting ones. - We do. But it's going away. The AKC doesn't like it. It takes up too much time. - Yes, it takes up too much time, exactly. - Yeah, they feel it takes up a lot of time. - Yes. - So it's a kind of-- I think it's a bit of a dinosaur. But we still do it-- - Yeah. - --because we do everything weird. - [CHUCKLE] - So, yeah. So then-- so then, OK. So then, now let's say I'm the second dog in. - OK. - So now there's a dog in front of me. - OK. - What is your advice for me as far as being aware? - I would just watch. And as that dog-- as I'm sending that dog around, I would make sure that I would have my dog ready to set up. Because I'm going to watch this dog. - You'll step forward a little, usually. - Yes. And I will watch this dog come around. - And that will vacate a spot for me to-- - Absolutely. - --be here. - So when I turn around, I would like you to be ready. - Ta-dah. - Yes. - We hope, ta-dah. - Exactly. [LAUGHTER] - Ta-dah. - Hopefully. - Or uh-oh. - Yeah, uh-oh. Whichever it is if it's a puppy. - Yes. - So again, this is an example of where you would just have to be aware of what's going on, so that when you-- so that when the judge is there, you are showing your dog to your best advantage. - Exactly. - And I just would add one other thing here is that, if it's a big class, you really should note which dog is ahead of you. - Absolutely. - Because it can get to be a cluster under-- this is usually a tent, here, on this end. That's why we call it, under the tent. It can just get to be a cluster. And everybody relaxes. And, you know, if there's 10, 20 dogs there, people are playing with their dog, sitting down. They're not-- And you really need to know who was in front of you-- - Absolutely. - --so that you're ready to go when it's time. - Absolutely. - And then, OK. So then-- so then, now, I go. And now what happens? So now you've examined everybody. - So now that-- now that I've examined everybody, you were the dog that came around. So now, at this point, I would come back. And I would want to take another look. - OK, so, typically, would you come down the front or the side first? - I would probably come down the front. - Mm hm. Mm hm. - Especially with your breed, I probably would want to take another look at heads. - And what would you be looking at when you're looking at heads? - I'd be looking at size, shape, expression. - Expression? So would you like kind of kiss to the dog a little bit? - Yeah. - So, I mean, that's something you just want to be aware of when she's coming down. - Mm hm. - Like, if anything, as the judge is coming, if you see the judge squeaking with their voice or making noise, just kind of get out of the way a little bit and let the dog-- - Let me-- exactly. - Yeah, let the dog look at the judge. - Exactly. - That's what-- OK. - And so then I would go. I would do the same thing. You know, if I have a really tough class, maybe, I would want to, perhaps, in a large class, maybe move them again, maybe check a couple down and backs to compare. - OK. You might pull some out to stack together in the middle. - Exactly. I may have a couple go around together. - I'm going to have you-- I'm going to have-- I'm going to face this way so you can sort us into-- - Yeah. Typically, I would compare a couple of them, maybe, if there are a couple I really like. Usually, judges will only do that if it's dogs that they are considering placing. - Mm hm. Mm hm. - If they're having a hard time determining-- - If there's a bigger-- - Yes. So I would move those around. And then, at that point, watch those. And then come back out again, and then start to make my placements. - Make your placements? Awesome. - Yes. So you should, at that point, have your dog like ready. And-- - So you should know-- - Be paying attention to where I am, so, when I point to you, you come out. - So-- so, in addition, it raises another point. Not only should you know what dog's ahead of you, you should know which dog was last. Because the-- when the last dog is being examined, you can assume, when that judge turns around, after they send them around that last time, that judge is going to be taking another look at your dog. - Absolutely. - So that's, again, when you want to be ready. I think what I'd like to do-- unless you have something else-- - No. That's really it. - --is to bring them in. And I'm going to get my puppy, too, and show how I'm waiting outside. And I'm going to kind of annotate what's going on over here with them. OK. [SQUEAKY-TOY SOUNDS] [BARKING] I'll be waiting out here. Now, normally, there would be another person in the ring, a steward, that would assemble the class. But Karen being-- we're going to-- she's going to play both the steward and the judge today. [BARKING] HEIDI CLAYTON: Shut up. [SQUEAKY-TOY SOUNDS] - Come here. [SQUEAKY-TOY SOUNDS] Rocky, I'm going to take that from you, because you're annoying with it. Yeah. Stay here. - OK, so you're-- are we coming in? - Yeah, have them-- assemble the class now. - OK, so number one. - Sushi, let go. - Come here. - Two. - Take it easy. Take it easy. That might be a little too much mojo for you. - Two. - Oh, no, I'm going to wait out. - You're going to wait out? OK. - So this is like I'm watching now. See, here's what-- here's what I recommend that you do. So now I'm watching. I say, OK, the judge is bringing them in. She's setting them over here. So I know where to go. I'm going to already-- Go ahead, Karen, just carry on as if. - OK - I'm going to already know where I am in the catalog order. So I know that, in the catalog order, I'm going to be in the middle. So I'm scoping out the ring. Now, this is-- this is the dead level ring. Just like I'm not even here. - So I'm going to take you around together. JANE KILLION: So it's not-- - Stop back here and set there. JANE KILLION: There's no strategy there. - Dog up, please. - Now. HEIDI CLAYTON: You ready, Annie? - So Heidi's asking Annie, if she's ready, which is the polite thing to do. And here they go around the ring. What a beautiful class. - A very nice class. [LAUGHTER] JANE KILLION: Now, I just want you guys to notice that Annie had to stop there. And keep going, don't listen to me. [LAUGHS] pretend I'm not here. - OK. - But Annie had to stop there. Now that's something we're going to talk about is that you have to gauge and leave enough space, between you and the dog in front of you, so that you don't get caught, and you have to stop moving like that. You're doing great, Annie. - Thank you. - Sorry for throwing you under the bus. So now she's going to go over now. - Stand. JANE KILLION: So now, because there's only two in the class, Annie's going to go ahead and just-- - Stand. JANE KILLION: --wait. She's stacking her dog. She's not really going to let her-- let her relax, too much. But if it were a bigger class, you would want that second dog to be just at ease, to relax a bit. KAREN IACOBELLIS: Let's do a down and back. - So here comes the down and back. - Stop. Stand, please. - OK, Heidi, I'm going to critique you a little. I want you to do that one again. Because, when you did that-- wait, wait, wait, come back. - Wait, wait, wait. - Look. Come back and look where Karen is. So Karen, face there. Now I want to make sure-- do a little courtesy turn, over here, to the right-- we'll talk about that-- so that when she takes off, she's moving-- right, that's it. - There you go. - There you go. Now, Karen can see her, right, Karen? - Right. - Now come back in. And don't stop so close. That a girl. - That a girl. - Stop. Right there. - Right there. - Beautiful. Now Karen can see her. - Nice job, Heidi. - We'll talk more about that. But you want to stop far enough away that the judge can actually assess the dog. You'll see judges, as-- - OK. - --as the dogs are coming in. They'll go like this-- - Take her all the way around. - --to the handlers, like stop, stop. It's really almost like 3/4 of the way down that you want to stop. You want to leave a good amount. Now look at-- oh, look at Annie go. She's an animal. Look at her go. She's all ready. - [LAUGHS] - She's competitive. - Whoops. - Good girl, Bijou. [SQUEAK] - May I see the bite, please? OK. - Hold on. - Very nice. OK. - All right, down and back. Here it comes. - Down and back. - We'll see if Annie-- Annie watched. Yes, Annie. - OK. - Look at her go. She knows. - Good job. - So if you're indoors, and you're doing a down and back or any movement, remember, the dog goes on the mat. So you always want to look at the judge and the-- - Very nice. - --where the mat is and-- I know. I'll pick that up-- and the judges. And make sure-- very nicely done, Annie. - Very nice. OK, all the way around. - Come here. And make sure that the dog is on the mat and that you're presenting the dog to the judge not you. I mean, I'm sure you're all-- the judge is interested (LAUGHING) very much in seeing you all, but they're more interested in seeing the dog. All right, now see, Heidi's ready for it. She's like, OK, I know. She's-- the judge is going to come down. And I think it's a tie. - Yeah, I-- I do. - I thinks it's one-one. - I have two blue ribbons. [LAUGHTER] - OK. [LAUGHTER] So you guys come on out. That was very well done. - Good job. - So now, pretend that they're two other dogs, because now we're all going to go in together. And I think I'm going to-- I'm going to run Bijou at the end. - OK. - So she's going to be the last one. Now what I want to say, before I do this, is that those of you that were with us last time, you remember that Bijou's big thing is that she tends to want to move with her head down. And we've been working a lot on it. And it's really good. But in a class situation, she'll still do it. So for this first time, I'm just going to go with the flow on it. But then, we'll come back, afterwards, and we'll actually do some training. I'm trying to sort of lay down the framework of what we're doing. And then we're going to come back and break it down and train it. Those of you that do performance sports are probably, you know, familiar with this, like you-- you try to run the whole course, first. And then you see where your weaknesses are. And you go, and you break it down. So now I'm going to go. I'm going to be number three. I'm going to go in third. KAREN IACOBELLIS: OK. - So. KAREN IACOBELLIS: OK. - Do you guys want to switch it up just for her? Do you want Daphne to go in first just for the practice for Sush? OK, go ahead. Oh, boy. - [LAUGHS] - Here we are. OK, come here, girlfriend. [CHIRRUPING] Good girl. - Good job. - So now I'm watching Karen. And I see she's looking at the first dog. So I'm-- and I'm like, OK, she's going to come looking down the-- Now she's coming down the front. Stand. Stand up, baby. There she is. Now, I'm just going to gently put my hand back here, so that I can-- that helps a little. I'm not actually pulling her. - Mm hm. - Now she's coming to the side. And I'm going to make sure that I present the side. She's a little stretched, but there it is. Stay. - Very good. Nice. - Stay. Stay. Now I'm going to feed. The judge is walking away. Feed your dog. You have to reinforce it, OK? Because we tend to get so caught up in getting it right, that we forget, every moment you're in here, you're training your dog. Whether you are purposefully training or not, you are shaping your dog. So as soon as the dog is giving you that nice stack, and the judge walks away, reward the dog. Good dog. Right? Good girl. OK. So now-- - OK. Let's move them together. - OK. Let's move. Let's see how that goes for us. Yeah? OK, ready? - [CHUCKLES] - So now what I'm going to do is give-- what go ahead, Heidi. Oh. - Away from me. - I'm going to give Heidi lots of room. And I'm feeding my dog so my dog-- so my puppy does not see the dog in front of it take off. Because what will happen is, a lot of times, when they see that dog in front of them take off, they just pull like a freight train. Good girl. [LAUGHTER] But if you can actually have them not see that one moment, where the dog in front of them takes off, it can sometimes head it off at the pass. OK, so now I know that I have two dogs left. So I'm going to go over in this corner. And I'm going to let my dog play a little bit. I mean she's a puppy. [SQUEAKY-TOY SOUNDS] Good girl. - OK, I guess we'll just go a little early. - Now, in a class this size, I would never use a squeaker in real life. It's just not fair. [SQUEAKY-TOY SOUNDS] If you have like, you know, a ton of dogs, and you can get way under the tent. But generally speaking-- - Looking good. - --it's not fair to use a squeaker. Good girl. So-- - Down and back. - --you should have some kind of toy that wouldn't-- that would not upset-- upset the other dogs. Or you can just do little hand-- little, what we call, naked games. Are you ready? Do you want the cookie? Where's the cookie. - Very nice. - Where's the cookie? Get the cookie there. - OK. - Yeah. Now, if it were a really big class, I would not be playing with my dog right now. - OK. - If it were a really big class, I would just be sitting here, and I'd be doing some massage. KAREN IACOBELLIS: Thank you. - But as the dog in front of me is coming up, again, I'm going to get her up with some play. [WHOOSHING SOUNDS] So you know, if this were a big class, I would have sat down. I would have massaged her a bit. Then, as there's maybe two dogs ahead of me, I would've played with her a little bit. And then, as the dog ahead of me is going, I'm going to put her back into the work mode. You'll just bury your dog if you insist that they show the whole time they're in the ring. You want them to be-- [WHOOSHING SOUNDS] A stack-- again, we've talked about this-- has a very short shelf life on it. - Nice. - And if you-- if you're asking your dog to stack through a whole class or stand there and behave itself, I mean-- - OK, all the way around. - --by the time it's your turn, the dog's going to be flat. So here, she's-- I'm going to wait till she goes and the judge is turned away. And now I'm going to stand up. Good girl. Hey, nice kickback, girl. Stay. Stay. Stay. Put that foot back. Come on, step up. Good girl. There you go. - OK. Now I know the judge is coming in. So I'm going to just-- go ahead, sweetheart. Yeah, good girl. So I know that this is going to be a very exciting for her. So I'm going to kind of get down here and start rubbing her behind the neck a little, so that she doesn't lose her mind when the judge comes. And I'll fix her feet if I have to, because she's probably going to wiggle. Good girl. Now that the judge is moving down the dog, I'm going to move more toward the front. So when the judge-- yeah, I know. - [LAUGHS] - We know it's very exciting. So when the judge is coming in at the front of the dog, you kind of want to get behind them. Is that right, Karen? - That's right. - And then move this way. - Yes. - Now-- now, she's going to take another look. I'm down here. - Nice. - OK. Good girl. - OK. - And now I know we're going to have to do the down and back. - Down and back. - Let's see if I can follow my own instructions. - [LAUGHS] - Here, Bij. Come on. So here's that little courtesy turn, that we talked about, just to get the dog straight. Good girl! - Good job. - And again, I'm going to connect with her a little bit on the corner. Yes, good girly. Good girly. [SQUEAKY-TOY SOUNDS] Stand up. Stay. Oh, that foot. You need to kick back that foot, girlfriend. Come here. Good girl. Good girl. Stay. Stay. - OK, all the way around. OK, you ready? Yes. Yes, we're going to try and do it loose-leash. Yeah, she's getting to be a big girl. She can do loose-leash. Look at her go. Good job. So now I know I was last. I'm going to whip her around here. So I know I have to set up, right away. The other girls have correctly read it. - Mm hm. - Oh, my gosh, I think it's a three-way tie. - It is. Three blues. - Three blues. - [LAUGHS] - But sometimes, at this point, the judge might send them all around. - Yes. - And you cannot-- well, let me ask you a question, Karen. Can I assume-- if you sent us, all three, around right now, could I assume, well, I'm third place? - No. - Why is that? - Never stop showing your dog. - Why is that? - Because I'm just-- this may just be my choice, just to let them-- I just want to take another look at them. But I may pull you and put you right up front. - Or even moving them around? - Yeah. Usually, as they come around this way, I'll make my decision. And I'll say, just come to the front. - And it's not always-- I mean, not every judge will necessarily put them in the position before-- - No. - --they start moving them. - Nope. - So you never give up. - You always show. You continue to show. Exactly. - Fantastic. - Exactly. - Fantastic. - So that's what we're going to do. We're going to take them all around. - Whoa. And Karen's going to make a surprise pick. [LAUGHTER] - Good girl. Come here. Come here. Come on. Good girl. Doing good, Bijou. Wow. Doing good. Doing good. Good girl. Yes. Yeah, I know, it's still difficult. It's still difficult. - So even though I said to take them all around, together, I had to look for Heidi's bitch. - Why is that? - --which is-- because she wasn't like right behind. So it kind of gives you like a little bit of an edge there. Like, all of a sudden, there's no dog, and then all of a sudden, wow. - There's a dog. - There's a really nice-- yeah. - So it-- so it helps? - It does help. - It does help to put a little more space. - This way, there is more space. You have more control over your puppy at that point. Even though I'm saying, take them all around together, they are going together, they're just not right on top of each other. - Let me come here and ask you this. So now let's talk a little bit about strategy, for-- for like, when you say to take them all around together. - Mm hm. - So you just said that a little more space sometimes is good, because it pops the dog. - Right. - But you had mentioned a couple of other scenarios last time we talked-- [BARKING] --like as far as strategy, with how much space to leave. - Yes I may be, if I didn't have the best mover, I may just let that follow right behind. I may not leave as much space. - Interesting. [BARKING] Because you don't want to stick out. - You don't want to stick out, especially if you're able to watch the dog, in front of you, and you see that it's a very nice mover, you know, for us, in our breed. - There was also something you mentioned that I thought, honestly, I'd never thought about, but about where to stack, laterally, like if you have a big or a small dog. - Absolutely. Like if you have a really big dog, and the dog in front of you is really small, you'd want to pull your dog in more-- - Toward the-- - --and vice versa. Right. So that this way-- and also, too, If you have a really nice front, I'd like to see them angled in-- - A little bit more. - --towards the center. So that's what the judge sees right away. - So they can-- so let's see. - Or a dog, maybe, that doesn't have enough neck, you don't want to be looking at it straight on. - I always turn her a little. - You want it to be-- because it gives us a much better picture that way. - You can see her front much more than you can see her-- - That's great. - Really great. - That's great. Those are great tips. - Yeah. - Those are great tips. - And I think being with bull terriers, they tend to give each other a lot of space. - Mm hm. Yes. [LAUGHS] - Well, we tend to need to. - So I always let the dog run a little bit ahead of me. - Yes. But even in the line, I'm-- you know, I always-- I still preach that to my daughter, so many years later, to make sure you leave plenty of room. Because, this way, if you're crowded from behind-- [BARKING] --it gives you more room to move up. - Yeah, you always-- and you never have-- [BARKING] --especially-- especially with puppies or young dogs, you really want to see that dog ahead of you go pretty far. Because they can just stop in the middle. I mean if it's a puppy, it can stop. - Absolutely. - It can start biting its lead. - I've seen that before, of course. Yeah. - Something like that. OK, so you know what? I actually am going to take Daphne and trade you, because now I want to break down a little bit of what-- what we do as far as the down and back and the different ring procedures. - OK. - So here, can I trade you? - Mm hm. - Thanks. Bye, Sush. - [LAUGHS] - Bye-bye. Come on, Sushi. Let's go to the kennel. - So I want to talk a little bit-- now, I want to break it down a little bit. And I want to talk about the down and back. So there was-- there had been a lot of questions about, how do you get expression on the down and back? And what I do is I have one of these-- hold on a second. Here's-- my husband's typing. MARK LINDQUIST: What? - I need you to zoom in on my little thing. MARK LINDQUIST: OK. - I have this little, tiny squeaker here. All right, tell me when you're zoomed in on it. MARK LINDQUIST: I'm in on it. - OK. And that's-- I keep that right here. [SQUEAKY-TOY SOUNDS] So I can just press on it or reach in and get it very quickly. So, Karen, let's-- if you can stand over here, again, we'll do a down and back. So now, when I do the down and back-- hey, would you guys do me a favor and bring me Zulu. OK. So when I do the down and back-- come here, Daph. So as I'm going down-- come here, girlfriend-- I'm not going to carry the squeaky toy in my hand, just because, with my dogs, they'll lose their mind. So, come on, girl. Bidi-bidi. [CHIRRUPING] Yes, good girl. Nice job. And then I'm going to connect with her, with a little cookie. And then, as I'm coming, I take the cookie out of her mouth, and I'm going to reach in here-- Come on. [SQUEAKY-TOY SOUNDS] Good girl. [SQUEAKY-TOY SOUNDS] --so I can get a little expression. Now she's a little-- whssht-- she's a little stacked out. But still, stand up. Good girl. There you go. [SQUEAKY-TOY SOUNDS] Bidi! And then-- and then, again, as the judge sends me around, I'm going to put away my squeaky, because she's just going to lose her mind with that. I'm going to show her a little food and connect with her. And then I'm going to go off. Now, a couple points about this go around on the end. Number one, unlike the first go around, where Karen was just looking for lameness, right here, and she only ever saw the dogs from the side, technically, with this go around, like we said last time, she is judging all sides of your dog. - Mm hm. - She sees your dog going away. She sees your dog coming from the side and, potentially, from the front, too. So it's a completely different strategy, right? So whereas with the first go around, you just have to make sure the dog has hit stride here. Here, we have to actually sort of strategize a little bit as far as speed. And we talked about this last time, how we maybe want to go a little slower on the away. - Mm hm. - And then start-- as you're coming around the turn, gain a little speed, so that you hit your stride as the judge sees the dog on the long way. And then, again, yeah, you probably maintain speed, but, as you're coming in, if the judge is still looking, and you always have to know if the judge is still looking, you might slow down a little bit. - Mm hm. So I'm just going to show you how that looks. All right, are you ready, Daph? Oh, and let me also say-- I'm just going throw it in there, too-- that the squarer your dog is the more likely the dog is going to be to pace going out. And we talked about pace last time. And we showed you what it looked like. But it's an incorrect gate, where the dog uses both-- I shouldn't say incorrect. - It's a comfortable way for the-- - For most-- for most dogs, they don't want to see them pace in the ring. And it's-- it's the same feet on each side, so it's like this instead of diagonal. And square dogs can tend to do that. And I don't know why. So in that case, and if I'm showing a square dog, I'm going to actually come over here and goose them up a little bit. And she doesn't really like toys that much. But I'm going to be like, whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo. Yeah. Now, she's not square. She's-- she's correct in the sense of like she'll always trot, and she won't pace. But if I have a square dog, I'd be more likely to goose them up a little. And if they maybe canter one step, I don't really care. I just don't really want the judge to see my dog doing this. - Pacing. - So-- so there's that. And also-- come here. I know, you still have more to show. There is the-- with a dog, with a young dog, that's correctly-- I shouldn't say "correctly" made-- that's not square-- because it's correct for some breeds to be square-- I would give her a little food. Come on, baba. [CHIRRUP] Now, see, I'm going to go this speed, and then I'm going to start to speed up a little here, so that-- so that she's striding out, nicely, as she comes around. Your dog's s always going to be on the inside in the show ring. In order for the dog to maintain a consistent speed, you're going to have to travel faster than your dog. Because you're on the outside of the circle, so you have to cover more ground than your dog does. If you don't increase your speed enough, as you come to the turn, your dog will wind up having to stop, as Daphne is here. The way in which you increase your speed is as important as how much you increase your speed. It looks smoother if you accelerate around the turns by taking larger steps not faster steps. In other words, the rhythm of your steps never changes, but the steps themselves get longer and cover more ground in the same amount of time. In this footage, you can see how every step takes the same amount of time, but the steps become increasingly larger as I need to accelerate to keep up with my dog around the turn. Can you see the increasing step length in this clip? Here it is in slow motion. Can you see it now? These changes in the length of your stride are often very subtle, but they make all the difference in the world. And then I might slow down a little. And then, bwee. And then, usually, I'll turn them around, just because it's easier to get a good stack at the end. So, I think that about covers that second go around. - Yes. - Do you have anything to add to that, Karen? - No, I think you about covered that all. - Now, I mean, and that all-- it's all very easily said. [LAUGHTER] But then you have to train that. And you have to train it with other dogs in the ring. Now, you may have noticed-- Mark, the camera? Honey? I'm talking. Hi, guys. [LAUGHTER] Mark's trying to-- he's trying to multitask. You may have noticed, when I did the down and back, that I was sweeping Daphne to the side. That's a strategy move, and we're going to talk about that. So Karen, would you stand here again-- - Sure. - --for a second. So, and I'm going to do it kind of in slow motion. What I-- hello? There is food here. I know you're retired, but not that retired. You need to do a little more. So what my ideal is to have the dog right in front of Karen, OK? I don't want-- and if I come straight down, this way, and then turn her to the side, Karen's going to have to step this way to see my dog from the side. So when-- if you are going to show your dog from the side, what you want to do is, you'll have your leash short, as you're going down. Come on. And as you're coming in, you're going to let some leash out and move a little bit to the left and then to the right, so that you're ready to get that stack. Should I do that again? OK, come on. [CHIRRUP] So, come here. So, my leash is short. I keep-- again, we talked about this last time. You want your leash short but not tight. I'll throw the loop over my thumb, so it's there. And then I'm going to come in, and I'm going kick a little bit to the left. Boop. Come here. You're here. Come on. Do that again. You messed it up. Come on, Daph, one more time. One more time. [SQUEAKY-TOY SOUNDS] Yeah, I do. I have a toy. Daphne's like, I'm retired. And you're doing this. We never do this more than once. This is ridic-u-lous. Come on, Daph. Come here, Daphne. And that gets her set up right in front of Karen. Another point that I'm going to bring up, while we're here-- step up, babe, step, step. Thank you. --is, if you are showing a puppy or any dog, and they are rambunctious on the down and back, Karen, what's the rule of thumb as far as re-dos? - Halfway. - So if they're-- if you're more-- - Yes. More than halfway, you really shouldn't. But if you're halfway, you could do it over again. - You just start all over again. - Yes, you just come back and start again. - And most judges will be patient with that. - Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. So let me talk about strategy here, why I do this. So in our breed-- come here, Daph-- there's a few things. One is that they should have this beautiful curve. See how Daphne's head has that beautiful curve to it? And she has a finish on the end of her nose. See how nice that-- her nose, her nostrils actually are bent down. And that is-- we really like that in this breed. Also-- so we like the curve, and we like the finish. She also has, you know, extremely good angles. She's actually-- I've got her downhill. So let me step her uphill, here, so you can see it better. I mean she's got beautiful angles. She's what we call a Dalmatian-style bitch. And it's just-- it-- she moves really well. She's well-made. I mean she's short through the loin but ribbed back. So, you know, she has-- she's not a square dog. She's not a short dog. She moves really well. She's got nice angles. So this is what I want to show. Now, if you look at her from the front-- come here, Daph. Come here. Stand-- here's the things that I wish could be better about this dog. It's that-- I mean, while she has very decent fill through here, this is not-- you know, we would like to see this a little bit more in here. This is a ROM champion bitch. She's beautiful. But you still-- you would like to see a little bit more. Also, the front, I mean, you can't really see it in the grass. But her feet are not the best. We're supposed to have really, really tight cat-feet. And again, a lot of times, because she does have a good return of upper arm, she's going to stand and not look as tidy as a dog that maybe is a little straighter in the upper arm. It's an example of a virtue being almost a fault viewed from a certain angle. So for her, I would always present the side. In my opinion, my estimation, this is the best thing about this dog. What you have to be able to do is what-- when we take handling classes our instructor tells us-- our other handling instructor tells us. She walks down the line. She says, tell me what's the best thing about your dog. And then she says, and now tell me what you would rather that the judge didn't see about your dog. And you need to know those two things before you go in. And that goes right back to our "Stack and Deliver" video that we did, where you need to be able to assess the dog and know what you want to show. Now, I'm going to show you the difference. Heidi, would you go on her for a second. Yeah, I'll take Zulu. Now this is her mother, Zulu. Now Daphne, is she eight? She's going to be eight, I think, in November. And Zulu's 11. So these are grande dames. They're both ROM champions. And-- and Daphne has three ROM champion offspring. So they're fine, fine, beautiful bitches. I don't want you to think, in any way, that this is-- I mean, this is an example of where I'm saying, very virtuous animals, they all have faults. And they all have virtues. Now, so I want you to see the difference, on the front, on this dog. So this dog would-- you know, she stands at the front of you. And it's like, well, I know one ear is down. Stay. Stay. But I mean-- stay, stay. Come on, mama. Come on. [CHIRRUPING] Stand. Stay. Stay. I'm just getting my shadow out of there. So look at the fill under the eye on this dog. I mean look at how-- how big and broad. Look at how tiny her eyes are. And the ear placement is beautiful. And again, that's something I didn't mention about Daphne is her ears could be tighter on top of her head-- not a big deal. What? Yeah, she's missing an ear. This is what happens when they get old. But the ear-- the ear placement-- singular. [LAUGHTER] So I mean this is-- I call her-- I call it-- and this is your killer front, it's-- we call it. And she has like a killer whale smile. I mean, it's just beautiful. And at her age, where they will tend to start to get thinner here, you can still see how beautifully filled that is. I mean, that's just a gorgeous, gorgeous head, very flat across the ears, ears high up. But you know, when you look at this bitch, from the side-- and again, she's not bad. But I want you to see how her nose doesn't finish like Daphne's nose does. And she doesn't have quite as much turn as Daphne does. And maybe even, she's not as clever behind the shoulder as Daphne is. Maybe she has a little bit less return of upper arm than Daphne does. Stay. So you know, it's a different style of bitch, equally virtuous. But with this bitch, I'm always going to stop, head-on with the judge. So we'll see if she remembers how to do that. - OK. - Karen, let's do that. And I just want to say, listen, people could be watching this and say, well, that's bull terriers. And I have whatever, kunekune pigs that I show. And what does that have to do with kunekune pigs? And here's the thing, it's the same for every breed. There is something-- and that's where you need a breed mentor-- that you have to understand about your dog. What is good and what is bad and show it. I'm only doing this as an example of how meticulously you have to go through and learn this stuff. And I wish that people were more forthcoming and, you know, with it. But sometimes, it can take a little while to get the trust of somebody to even tell you this thing in your breed. - Mm hm. [LAUGHS] - Come here. [CHIRRUP] So-- so Zulu, so we're going to go down. Now, I am going to-- now here's how I'm going to stop her. Zulu. Zu-- and I'm going to get in front of her and stop her. And then I'm going to get out of the way. - Hm? - Yeah, it's pretty, huh? - Mm hm. - I'll do it for the camera so that they can see it. - Yeah, that's a great idea. - Yeah, she's beautiful. Come here. Zulu, stand. Yeah, I mean, look at that front. I mean, that's just a gorgeous. And, you know, I'm only-- normally, I wouldn't do this. I'm only doing this, because my shadow kind of gets in the way. I guess I can do it this way, and you see it. That's lovely. OK. Good girl. Stand. Oho, come here. So, that's just an idea of strategy. Karen, anything-- like you gave some really good strategy things about fronts. And again, with a dog like this-- let's stack them up, and let's show how we might-- how we would probably do her, fully flat, and Zulu 3/4. [CHIRRUPING] So I might show her a little bit like this. Come here, Zulu. Stand. Come here. Zulu's like, oh, I haven't done this in like 10 years. - [LAUGHS]. - Come here, stand up a little bit. Stand. Oh, she misses the cookies. - [LAUGHS] - Stay. Yeah, she doesn't have much of a stay anymore. Stand. Good girl. Go ahead, fix your foot a little bit. Oh, she says, I'm not going to do it. - [LAUGHS] - Stand. Good. So, yeah, so she's just like a little bit in, off of where Daphne is. So tell me, Karen-- stand. I mean, you do have to show the side. You can't-- like this would be too much, what I'm doing here. But tell me what-- - Well, you could still-- you could still have her angled in, so that when I'm coming down the line, I really have to look. But as I get to you, that's right in my face. - Yeah, that's where you're going to see. You're going to see. - Yeah, that's right in my face. - Stay. Yeah, so you can see that, right there. - Right. - Isn't that lovely? - It is. - Stay. I mean, and again, now, you watching from the side will see that she's too stacked far out. But then, as Karen comes by, I'll just step her up a little bit-- - Exactly. - --so she's not-- - Exactly. - Good girl. She's a little-- she's a little rusty. Good girl. [LAUGHTER] So what else, Karen? I mean, that was-- that was a great tip about the turning in, about the size of the dog. I mean any other things like vizsla-specific? - Well, we do that with vizslas, too. You know, we're have-- we have a height, you know, measurement, in our-- - Oh. --standard. - Can you wicket out? Is it disqualification? - Yes An inch and a half under or over is a-- - Disqualifier? - Yes. - Hm, interesting. - So, you know, as it should be, because our standard says they're a medium size hunting dog. So-- - Interesting. Interesting. - --they're not supposed to be too small or too big. I think we see too big more than we see too small. But, if you look at the dog ahead of you, and it's really, really teeny, and you have a dog that's at the top of the standard, you would like to pull it in a little bit. Like you wouldn't get directly in line behind it, so the judge sees a smaller dog and then sees your dog. - [LAUGHS] Yeah, they have to lift their head up to look at your dog. - Exactly. - Yeah. - Exactly. So, and vice versa for a smaller dog. - Interesting. - You know, I would bring the smaller dog in, so that you're not looking, and then like dropping off. It's closer to you, so it gives you the illusion that-- - Interesting. - I mean it's a little bit of a strategy. I mean, there's-- they still are what they are. But it doesn't look so out of place like that. - Well, because, I mean, if the dog is not the breed standard height, you're not going to show the dog. I mean if it's going wicket out-- - You should know. Exactly. - You should know. - You should know Before you even show your dog whether or not your dog is in-- - But still, you don't want to be put through that. - No. - So what happens is the judge doesn't measure every dog. But the judge can decide that they think that maybe your dog might be too big or too little. And they can pull out a measuring stick-- - Absolutely. - --a wicket, they call it-- - The wicket. - --and measure the dog. And you know, you just don't want to be having that happen to you. - No. It really takes a lot of time. And it's-- it's just, like I said, you should know before you show your dog that your dog is within the standard. - But even so where it's a big-- OK, and you know, an example would be miniature bull terriers, where it's a big deal that-- small is a big deal. Because we tend to have a lot of minis that are very good, but they're larger. So you really want to, you know, strategize. There's no disqualification, but you don't want to put your huge mini like right on top of a tiny one. So you might recede it a little bit. Very interesting. - Absolutely, yes. Mm hm. And that's another thing, too, where you could either maybe be closer to the dog in front of you, if there is a big difference in size, if you're in a bigger class, rather than leaving like the gap there, and then they see that bigger bull terrier, like a really nice, smaller mini and then a larger one. - Yeah, yeah. Well, if you were larger, you'd want to be away. - Exactly. - [LAUGHS] If you're smaller, you want to be next to it. That's great. Oh, look who got here, Gina. Mark, swing around, say hi to Gina. She just did that Avon 39. She did 33 of 39 miles. GINA BODERCK: 33 of 39. - Why, I think that's kind of OK. And she slept in a pink tent-- - Congratulations. - --on Randall's Island. - That's awesome. - Yeah, it was awesome. There she is. That was the walk for breast cancer. OK, I'm going to address it. So one thing was just, basically, a general comment that, really, it is bad form to use the squeaker in the ring. If it's your turn, I mean that's your turn. Like, you can use a squeaker. But it's just-- listen, I've had people squeak their squeaker right before you taking them down. And, you know, you're just a loser if you do that. I'm sorry. And I've done it by mistake. And I felt terrible, like where the dog jumped on me. Thank you. Yeah, I know. (LAUGHING) I mean, really, like big loser. It happened to me with a fellow bull terrier competitor. And I was like, please, I'm-- I like was profusely apologetic. But it can happen. But, really, you should never-- you shouldn't be doing anything to steal from the other dogs. People do. But that's why you also have to have your own squeaker, because people-- other people will do it. What to do when the dog after you is too close on the turn and around that makes your dog turn the head to see the one that's back? Oh, good. Yeah, that's something you have to proof for, basically. Right, Karen? - Exactly. Exactly. - What do you do when the dog after you is too close, on the turn around, when you go around? That makes your dog turn his head to see the one behind him. - Yeah, it's-- at that point, when you're moving around, too, there's really-- - There's not much you can do about it. - There's not much you can do the first time. But I wouldn't have a problem asking them to leave you room the next time that you move around. - Well, you know-- so a couple of things about that. Number one, even if they're not too close, I find, with young dogs, a lot of times, they are very alarmed by the presence of a dog. And they will want to turn and look behind them. But they're puppies. I mean this is what they do. - Exactly. - And this is why you go to handling class and move them in groups. And this is why it's important not just to practice alone but to go to handling class, to do sweepstakes, to do matches, so they get used to it. - Exactly. - And I find, usually, until they're about a year and a half old, they're kind of still very like distracted by what's going on. Right? - Yeah, absolutely. - At about around 18 months old to 2 years, they kind of settle down. But you just need to keep going. What else was I going to say something about that? Oh, but you know, I have had situations, and especially in the bull terrier ring, where we don't really have very-- we don't have any professional handlers. And a lot of people are not very experienced handlers. And they will tend to run up on you. I really have no problem just pulling off to the side and letting that dog go, and then just stepping in behind them and going. - Yes. - Is that right? - Yes. Why not? Absolutely. - But another reason to remember who was in front of you, so you know when to turn. - Exactly, yes. Because you get a certain amount of time to make your dog look good, so you have to take advantage of that. - Yeah, absolutely - Can, Jane address headshaking when moving, especially with puppies? Well, I-- I don't know why. I mean that's a $20,000 question. - Yeah, exactly. - Because it could be a lot of-- there could be a lot of reasons. It could be, check their ears. I mean, make sure that they don't have something going on. Because, usually, when my dogs are shaking their heads, they have some yeast or something in there. So you want to make sure that there's nothing like that going. Or it could be that they're just not used to having-- - It's the collar. - --that collar. You never want the collar, if you can help it, to be tight. But it should be tight enough that it will stay up there. And, yeah, I can-- I think that's usually more of just a practice in desensitization. - Absolutely, yeah. - And if it's a bull terrier, again, you know-- and they really, for whatever reason have a huge objection, sensitivity behind their ears-- just train them to gate with the leash down on their shoulders, like we talked about in the last episode. Where there are basically two different strategies. One is just to have the collar right up here. And one is to let it drape down. And Mark, I-- oh, oh, here we go. I think, for whatever reason, I'm not very good at this iPhone business. It a-- OK, so. So a little dog, you would stack in closer to the judge, Monica Reinhard asks. And we answered that, yes, I mean, if, you know, little is not a virtue. If little's a virtue, then you don't. - Mm hm. - And again-- - Exactly. - --what are of the virtues or the faults? My goodness, here we go. Let me see. I just I'm making a mess of this phone. And Pamela Buckley says, what do you do, when you're in a packed ring, and you have a professional handler crowd you and/or stand their dog in front of you after the final go around? What do you say? So Karen, what do you do? - I would just move away. - Move out in front? - Exactly. Yeah, don't ever allow that to happen. - Mm hm. MARK LINDQUIST: We got footage of that. - We have footage of it? - Yeah. - It happened to me in the group. And there was a professional handler. And this professional handler left me-- I am not kidding you-- this much space to set up my dog. ANNIE GLASER: And behind a post. - And it was behind a post. And I said, pfft. And I went outside. And this-- the handler actually went after me and says, what are you doing out there? You shouldn't be out there. And I said, well, no. I mean I can't stack in the two feet you left me to stack my dog. So either move up or I'm going to stack out here. - Absolutely. - And the handler didn't want to move up. So that meant that everybody then moved out from-- it was a hot day, and everyone just moved out from outside the tent. Listen, the first time I showed in group, I cried to the point where I used to have Karen's daughter show my dog in group. Because I just could not take it. I mean it was just too devastating. I-- I-- it was-- and I'm not a soft person. But I remember-- I remember saying to Jenna, when she was sitting in the corner-- Jenna being Karen's daughter-- I said, how are you going to get back in line when it's your turn? She's like, I'm just going to push my way right in. - [LAUGHS] - And I-- and I saw her. And she did it. - And she does. - She just got herself-- So a lot of times, if you just act like you are going to make room for yourself, the make room for you. - Absolutely. - But it's another-- another reason to reiterate that-- why you need a good free stack and a good hand stack. Because you probably are not going to have a lot of room in the group or in a crowded class to just get out there and have your dog at the-- You're going to have to get down and probably-- KAREN IACOBELLIS: There's going to be times, yes. JANE KILLION: --set up your dog. I mean, there'll be times-- and this is stuff you have to practice, too, where there's a dog in front of you and right behind you. Right, Karen. KAREN IACOBELLIS: Absolutely. - I just want to review the triangle, Karen. KAREN IACOBELLIS: OK. JANE KILLION: Because we did talk about it last time, but let's just review it. So let's put a class together, girls. I have some closing thoughts for you. [BARKING] So let's put together our little class. And this time, we're going to do a triangle. Yeah. Come here. So we're going to get all set up. I guess I'll go first. And I'll do the triangle, and then I'll talk while you guys are-- So here we are. Stand, girlfriend. Good girl. Here comes Karen looking down the front. Now see, I'm going just fix her front a little bit there. - Mm hm. - Sometimes you can just-- yeah, good girl. Get out of the way. Good girl. Karen, can you come down. I'm sorry. Come down the front one more time. So see how Zulu-- OK, so there, she fixed her little foot. Now here comes Karen down the front. So I'm going to make sure that I get out of the way. And then if my dog's not looking at the judge, I'll just kind of bait her over that way as much as I can. Can you see her head OK? - Mm hm. - And then, as the judge is coming around this way, I'm going to move to the front and stack her this way, OK? So, so I'm always presenting the part-- the part that the judge is looking at. - That I'm looking at, correct. - OK. - What a nice class. - [LAUGHS] Yes. - [LAUGHS] OK. Triangle, we're going to do. [BARKING] - OK, so let's pretend we already went around-- - Yeah. - --and she examined us. So now we're going to show the triangle. Which, again-- come here. So it starts out almost like the down and back. And then I'm going to speed up a little bit on the turn, so that, by the time I'm going sideways, she sees a side gait. And when I get to here, I'm going to connect with my dog, just like I did on the down and back, bring her around. Look at where my judge is, make sure the dog is lined up there. And, at the same time, I'm also seeing that there's maybe a little rise about 8 feet out from the judge. So I'm going to aim for that little crest to stop right there. Come here. Because my dog is going to look much prettier. So now I'm going to slow down, stop-- stop-- and present that really pretty front of that dog. - Nice. [BARKING] - Stay. And I wait for the judge to say what she's going to say. OK, so she's going to come around, look at the side. Stay. Stand. Good. Good. - Nice. - Stand. - OK. - Stay. Take her around? - Go again - OK. Good girl. And now I'm just going to take her around. You're good girl, Zulu. All right. - Another thing, too, that I was just thinking of, as we do that go around. Now, when I'm going to take Heidi around, when Heidi is coming around for the-- to get in line, if you-- if anybody else watched me, I watched you all the way around. So it would be a great idea to have your dog stack at that time. - Oh. - So I get another-- - That's a great point. Oh, and I want to say that. Yep. Yep. Yep. - So I'm-- your dog is going to get another look from me, because I'm going to automatically go like this. And I'm going to say, oh. - So, yes. If she-- so let me just flesh that out. - Back. - So sometimes a judge will only watch to here, and then they look right back. But you always, always, always have to be looking at where they're looking. Because the chances are that they may come watch all the way down to the end. And if they do, at that time, you have another chance to show off your stack with your dog. Because she'll look-- she'll look back there. But you raise another great point, that I wanted to say, and I didn't, which is that you should always be playing with your puppy or relaxing or doing, you know, whatever you're doing. But the dog should never look sloppy while you're waiting. Like, right now, I'm not paying attention to her, and she's in a stack. And she's sagging. I would never do that, really. I would rather have my dog sitting, doing sit up and begs, doing tricks, lying down. Down. Zulu. Zulu. [CHIRRUP] Zulu down. I would rather be doing this than having my dog in a sloppy, sway-back stack. So either you are or you are not showing your dog, but never let your dog look crummy. KAREN IACOBELLIS: Right. - Right? But that doesn't mean that you should be showing the dog every minute. KAREN IACOBELLIS: No, no. - Because they'll just be like, look, I'm done. - Exactly. By the time it's-- yeah. - Yeah, I had enough of this. - Where it counts, you've already lost it. - And especially, you see people with puppies correcting them and correcting them. And for whatever reason, people have it in their head that you-- there's this reductive idea of dog showing, that you have to never allow the puppy to do anything but stand. - And how boring is that for a puppy-- - Oh, it's terrible. - --or any do? - It's terrible. - Really. - This is so much more fun. - Absolutely. - Good girl. Nice job, Zulie. She's still got it. Good girl. - OK so I would have Heidi do a triangle. - Yeah, no, go ahead. And I'm going to talk to something else while you're examining the other two dogs. - OK. - So the final thing I want to leave you with is that you have to break this down and train it. And you have to approximate the show experience before you actually go to a show. So number one, handling class, for sure handling class. If you're lucky to have someone like Karen, I mean somebody that's going to be positive. - Very good. - Never let anyone else touch your dog, because there are a lot of people who will use rough methods with your dog. And they mean well. - OK, all the way around. - And they want to help you, but you really want to advocate for your puppy-- come on-- and not-- not let anyone else handle your dog. But you have to practice all this in a handling class. Then sweepstakes, I don't know why people don't enter sweepstakes. We just had a specialty, a parent club specialty. And I was the only one that entered. There was one other person, I think, that entered sweepstakes. I mean everybody who has puppies should have been there. Everybody with a puppy, 6 to 18 months old, should have been in that sweepstakes. There's no excuse for not doing sweeps. Take every advantage of it. Take every chance you can. And finally, match shows-- there are match shows-- not finally. There are match shows that you can go to. And now, the AKC has a four to six month program, where-- - Nice. - --a lot of shows, you can take your puppy to a real dog show and show in the four to six month class. Now, I would take-- say, I would take that with a grain of salt, in the sense that-- stay-- that-- and there's my dog. I'm ready for you Karen. Stand. Stay. Look at your front, girlie. - [LAUGHS] - Look at your front. You still got it. I would take that sort of under advisement, let's say. Because I think that a real dog show can be an overwhelming experience for a lot of puppies in the four to six month age range. But if your puppy is solid, and you've done-- been going to matches and handling class, all along, and you're-- you know, you really feel that your puppy is confident enough to handle it, then, definitely, it's a good approximation before you actually go to a dog show. The more you can just approximate and show and train and in a noncompetitive environment, because what happens is, listen, the best of us get in there, and we want to win, right? [LAUGHTER] - I mean you can't help it. So you want to try and get in as many non-- like just fun matches or handling class, where you're not in it to win it, Because you just-- it's just not fair to the puppy. So, OK, here's our final class. Any-- Karen, do you have anything to add? - I agree with you, that the more places that you could go and work with your puppy and set your puppy up in different circumstances, practicing doing your gaiting patterns, and let your dog-- puppy be the lead dog, letting your puppy follow, practicing that. - You-- you have to practice all that. - Yes. - Be in the middle, front-- - Right. - --and everything. - Mm hm. - That's why I asked Heidi if she wanted-- even though her bitch is so well-trained, I still said, do you want a chance to be in the front or in the back, because you need to practice all of that. - Absolutely. - Sushi's the best. - [LAUGHS] - She's a good girl. I guess I'll keep her. - Nah. - Is that it? [BARKING] - That's it - Oh, I'm sad. It's over. It's always sad when it's over. All right. Well, we're waiting for judge's instructions, now. Let's see. - OK, let's take them all around, together, one more time, so I can applaud for everybody. [LAUGHS] - Heidi, are you ready? - Yep. - OK, let's go. - [CLAPPING] - Yes. JANE KILLION: Everybody applaud for the dogs. - [LAUGHS] - Yay! Yay! Good girl. - Good job, every one. - Phew. MARK LINDQUIST: International people, they-- can you explain sweepstakes? - Oh, sure. Sorry. Oh, so for the international people, can we explain sweepstakes? So, well, it's very interesting, because for the international people, in Europe, you cannot get a championship until their, I believe, two years old. I mean you get all your points, but they have to be like two years old and a day to get the last point. In the United States, you can get a championship at six months old. So what we have is probably the equivalent of your young dog days that you have over there, where it's-- it's a class for puppies, from 6 to 18 months. And they're broken down. You know, it's not-- they don't all compete together. They're broken-- broken down into usually 3 age groups, 6 to 9, 9 to 12, 12 to 18. And they-- OK, sweetheart-- and they-- it's a sweepstakes in the sense that everybody pays, and then your prize is a portion of the pot. But it's not a competitive class. It's a-- I mean, it's a competitive class in the sense that you get a placement, but you don't get points-- KAREN IACOBELLIS: No points. - --towards your championship. So it's really just a practice. And normally, it would be-- come here, Zulu-- it would be, not only practice for the dogs, it's practice for the judges. Because those are usually judges that are trying to get their judge's license. So they have an opportunity to judge in sweeps. And people get to see how they do. And they also get to have the feeling of what it's really like to judge, which, trust me, it's very different than-- KAREN IACOBELLIS: [LAUGHS] - --you think you know. And then you stand there. And you're like, wow. I-- what do I do now? You know, don't forget to mark your book. KAREN IACOBELLIS: Exactly. - Because you can so easily forget that. But that's what sweepstakes is. I hope that explained. KAREN IACOBELLIS: Yes. - Did that explain it well? KAREN IACOBELLIS: Yes. - Nice. All right. Thank you. You guys were great. KAREN IACOBELLIS: Great. - Thank you so much for helping us. This was fun. See you next time. Bye. KAREN IACOBELLIS: Sushi. - Good girl. [BARKING] Good girl, Zulu.