Oneness and Life: QUESTIONS with Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

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Posted by: oneness on Aug 5, 2009

This event was part of a series of events which were open to all with a sincere interest in the emerging consciousness of oneness. www.workingwithoneness.org

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So my experience of oneness is getting more available, more present, richer and deeper.
And at the same time there seems to be an equally opposing force that wants to pull me into separation.
I was just noticing that in meditation how much my mind wants to go into the arguments
for why I'm separate and why, you know there's a
And why are you separate? I'm interested in those arguments.
It's me and the other. Me and you know, me and that.
And some need to define myself. Some resistance to just letting go.
I mean I am completely comfortable with that alone with myself or in nature. But when it's me and the other...
With other people?
Particularly.
With other people.
You have to be separate.
It seems like. It seems like it's much harder to connect with the oneness when I'm with other people.
And have you ever tried to connect with the oneness within other people?
Yes. And I have many times.
And it works?
Yes.
That's wonderful.
So there is a meeting of oneness and oneness.
That's beautiful.
I have found that. And I'm painfully aware of the times when that's not present.
I don't think in this culture, that not just your own thought forms, but the thought forms that are in the air so much
you can be consciously just present in oneness all the time.
Because there is so much pressures of the collective that force you to think of yourself as separate.
Particularly what I find strange in this culture, I think it came from the Puritan work ethic,
that there's this idea you have to do it all on your own.
And you know it's portrayed in the, coming from Europe I notice it in the American collective
like the fact there isn't any social welfare system.
I'm actually English.
You're English. Oh, well there you go.
I know what you mean.
You know what you mean. You've got to stand on your own feet.
You've got to do it yourself.And there isn't any grace because the Puritans didn't believe in grace.
So it's really hard work and by effort alone.
And so there is that whole pressure. I don't know how long you've been here so how long you've been...
I definitely feel it.
Which is really hard work and I sense that both, um, you know physically but also spiritually
people in North America work terribly hard.
There's this whole focus. And it's your work. It's your effort. You're only going to get there through your effort.
And you can't get to oneness through effort.
But. So there is this pressure as I even say seeped in to spiritual life.
That you've got to do it yourself, you know. You do the practices and you really work hard on yourself.
You're going to get there wherever there is.
I don't think it's fair personally because I don't think life, particularly spiritual life is meant to be like that.
I know when I'm experiencing oneness I'm not doing anything and I'm not even there.
Yeah. It's state of being. You're just present in oneness.
And it's this very simple thing that life and the oneness is a self supporting organism.
And you're part of it. You're an expression of it. And then in my understanding it can actually work.
I have a feeling. And it's just a feeling I have that somehow people cut off life from really responding to them.
They kind of condition life. Or they blinker themselves from life
So that life can't come to them in unexpected ways.
It is kind of being. They program or they censor life so that only if they work hard, fulfill themselves or whatever
it is, they don't allow life to support them in unexpected ways.
And to me life or the oneness is a meeting of so many different worlds.
I mean some people begin to allow themselves to be helped by angels for example.
I mean there are so many angels there waiting to help us.
They're kind of stacked up like airplanes at Heathrow Airport.
Waiting to come in, but everybody's too busy and they don't have time and you know.
And they're very well behaved angels. If you don't, if you're too busy they're not going to interfere
unless it's really necessary.
So you see these people walking with these great burdens on their backs of all of their troubles.
And their, and everything they have to do to get somewhere to support themselves and their family.
And then to achieve, to realize something spiritually and there are all these kind of beings in the background.
Trying to say "Hey pass them over a bit. You know we can make those burdens work differently.
"Or we can play tricks on the burdens." But nobody's listening.
Because there is this conditioning you know you've got to make all this effort.
And you've got to do it on your own.
And that defines who you are. And if you can achieve it then you are successful.
Life is, um. I was on the radio two days ago about Mushka Gushka
Moshka Goshka. Who is this Sufi archetypal Persian figure, the mover of obstacles.
And it's like in this story of Moshka Goshka you just have to remember Moshka Goshka
then he will remove obstacles. He's a really useful person to have around, you know.
We don't seem to know how to open the door to that.
And my sense really is that this next stage of global evolution can only happen if we work together.
It happens through individuals. But it is like a whole interconnection of individuals working together.
It's like there is this network of light.
It's very beautiful if you see it from, I've done a lot of meditation, and I can sometimes see things from outside of the world.
From outside of the world. And you see this kind this kind of spinning network of human light.
And how it moves. There is this Hindu expression Indra's Web.
It is this whole beautifully woven network of light and how it talks to each other and communicates with each other.
It's a global network.
And it's composed of the lights of those who look towards God.
It's very beautiful.
And I really am convinced. And again, it's one of the reasons that of this gathering like this.
It's that we can only do it if we work together.
We can only allow it to happen.
And for so long we've been, everybody's kind of been working on their own.
It's not so much fun either.
But you are right. The pressures of the collective to be always to be suffering. It's very powerful.
But oneness is even more powerful. Because oneness has divine power. Separation just has human power.
You made a reference to working with the angels.
The angles? Oh I did, didn't I?
The last talk you spoke about the elementals and to me there's been this like reality that we've forgotten.
It feels like it wants to come back.
And I don't know if this Sufi tradition actually speaks to that practically or if you're just going to suggest
that we be in the oneness and be who we are.
Interesting question. Sufism and angels.
Our teacher in India, cause this particular Sufi lineage was in India for a long time.
And they worked very much with Jinns and angels.
Elementals are different. Elementals are more earth forces.
Angels belong to the celestial world.
And I think he says that there comes a time on the spiritual path when the angels and the jinns help you.
And directly. But I think one just has to be open to the inner worlds.
And actually it's very interesting because when we did this seminar with Sandra Ingerman
we had a question session afterwards.
And she was very unfamiliar with having questions.
Because she says in her shamanic tradition they don't do that.
They go on a journey and they ask the inner figures to answer the questions so you get your own answer.
So they work in the shamanic tradition very much with those inner forces
whether you call them archetypes or inner beings.
My sense is that we just have to be open. I think at the present moment we need all the help we can get.
And we can't do it on our own.
And as I say there are a lot of beneficial forces that want to help us.
There are also other forces that don't want to help us.
And you know so you have to have some discrimination.
But, because it is their world too.
Ok, this physical world isn't their world so much.
But there are other worlds, the inner worlds that we actually live in.
For example our negative thoughts are material thought.
The world's present collective obsession with materialism is very, very hard going on material beings.
Because they are nourished by our spiritual thoughts.
They are nourished by thoughts that look towards God.
And this whole collective thought form that says what can fulfill us is more stuff.
Is quite often quite painful for them.
Because it has a density we create in the inner world through that collective thought.
We actually create a density that is difficult for them sometimes to penetrate.
It is one of the reasons that many people find it difficult to have access to those realities today
is because our minds are, our consciousness has become very, very, very dense.
And what Mrs. Tweedie was, after her sheik died, she was up in the Himalayas
at the Gandhi ashram in the foothills of the Himalayas and she said
there, particularly at night because you hear this primal sound of creation,
the Yogis say that if that sound ceased for a moment, the world would disappear.
It's this kind of primal sound that is the note of creation. And you can hear it there.
And she said one of the reason you can hear it there is for many centuries rishis have been meditating in the caves.
In the Himalayas. So they have produced an atmosphere that enables one to be,
to have more access to those kind of, to that reality .
While if you went down into Calcutta or something it would be more difficult.
And here in the West there is, we've kind of isolated ourselves through our material thought forms.
But for example a gathering like this takes place on many different levels.
And you couldn't do the work we are doing here if there weren't spiritual beings helping.
Helping to bring a certain energy here. To help us. To take our attention to something that is more real.
And I find it a great honor and beauty to work together with these beings.
They are very, very beautiful. Some of them are very old. You know they have been here for many centuries.
Been around. It's a different line of evolution. It's not the same as physical being.
They are very beautiful. And they are waiting for...
There are actually Sufi orders that work more consciously with the angelic beings than our particular order.
The Naqshbandis, we don't work consciously so much.
Fro example some of the Chisti orders do practices that are much more
consciously accessing the angelic realm.
They're very beautiful.
Yes, so thank you for asking.
There are traditionally angels of power and angels of beauty.
There are just as, in this plane there are masculine and feminine.
The angelic plane there are angels of power and angels of beauty.
Hi. First of all, thank you so much. I am very touched by your teachings.
Thank you.
In your book, Spiritual Power, there is a couple things I just want to ask you about.
Nobody's asked me anything about that book.
I was kind of surprised because I thought it was quite an unusual book when I wrote it.
Interesting. You know I often only get the information when I am writing.
So it is kind of a revelatory process for me. And I was very intrigued to put a lot of that stuff down.
And it's interesting nobody has been particularly seemed to take any interest in it.
Well maybe I'm the first.
You talk about a vision there where you went down I think into the subway somewherep
where it's really heavy duty energy. And then behind one of the stalls you met your teacher there.
And he comes out and says "yeah, we have to go where we're asked to go."
Oh yes, yeah.
And somehow that really touched me.
And you also say somewhere in the book that it's necessary that we take this energy to the really darkest places.
As much as out in the fringes.
Right.
That's why when we had this gathering. It is interesting because we discovered a really, really nice
place remote on the headlands somewhere and we were going to have the gatherings there.
And at the last moment it didn't work.
So, well a community center in Mill Valley. It's more in the midst of things.
Well I was just curious if there is, if you can say something more about for instance how to bring that
into places where there is more, I mean here amongst us there is a lot of that light.
And there are areas where they really don't have access to us.
They're more like the lost souls. And we can even talk about the government.
And I wondered if there is a way that it can be brought to where it's really needed.
Important question. My first answer is that each of us if we be where we are, we are where we are needed.
And my sense is to bring it, the light and the energy and the power into where we are.
Into our life here.
At the same time there are people who are being trained to bring light into some of the very densest, darkest places.
It is, you need to be quite tough spiritually because they're not so pleasant.
But there is work being done there.
I think the first thing is to accept that you are where you need to be.
Wherever it is. Again if I see that each of us is part of life's organism.
And once you realize that life is this self-sustaining, very dynamic organism of which your light is a part.
It, like any organism, it takes you where it wants you, wants you to be.
And I think also that this present collective is actually quite dense as it is.
In the shopping malls of America there is not a lot of light.
And just be bringing your remembrance of God, bringing your awareness with oneness,
into this ordinary environment where you are, I think it's much harder work than most people realize.
I always say one of the spiritual practices of today is just to remember God where you are.
Because it's much more hard work than I think it was a few hundred years ago.
There are so many dense material thought forms around.
What I particularly meant by when I spoke about, wrote about that in Spiritual Power,
there was a sort of a movement in the 70's that was towards creating an alternative society
that had a sort of spiritual dynamic and really said "This material society one wants to get away from,
one wants to create an alternative society. A lot of experiments done by that, about that.
And my sense is that isn't the answer, that it is living an ordinary life where we are.
We bring that energy into the mainstream of life, if you like into the blood vessels of life.
What is very beautiful is that if you life this in your everyday life. Remember you are connected to all of life.
You actually bring a certain light from the higher plane and you bring it like into your blood.
And on that level your blood is connected to the veins of life.
It is connected to the, to the veins of life.
And it goes through, the moment you are completely present where you are in life.
And it goes through you into the rest of life. It actually flows from the inner into this much denser plane
where it can, where it can bring light where it is needed in a kind of flow.
Yes there are places that are very, very, very dense.
And there are people who are trained to work there.
It's not a work that everybody could do. Does that?
Yeah, no, that's good. I, when reading your book and hearing you talk I really feel that connection.
I mean it's a transmission. I can feel it. It's like I've hooked into something and I can really feel it.
Yeah, that's part of my work to hook people into things.
Yeah, now in that same book you also talk about a transmission.
Later on in the book you talk about that there are actually certain traditions that have a transmission.
And you didn't say a whole lot about that.
No.
And I wonder if you can expand on that.
Yeah there is this, there is this tradition. In India it's known as the Satguru.
There are a lot of very good spiritual teachers who teach and help people and guide them on their path.
And then there is a whole different category if you like of spiritual lineages that hold a transmission.
That have access to a certain spiritual power or energy that is needed both for
individual transformation and for global transformation.
And in India the expression that is used for some body who has that transmission.
As I say is a satguru. It isn't really understood in the West.
And it means that they have been given or they are authorized to have access to.
It is an energy that doesn't actually come from human consciousness.
It comes from a different dimension.
This has to do with the fact that at a certain level you cannot transform yourself.
There's a whole stages of purification and preparation that you can do.
And but in order to what I call actually flip a level of consciousness.
You cannot do it yourself. You don't have that energy.
You have to have an energy that comes to you from outside, from a different level of reality.
And there are certain gurus and lineages that are holders of that quality of energy.
And it is very, very pure. It is very uncontaminated.
For example, I mean there's no money involved, but it's not really that, it's...
And that is why they say there's a point at which you have to go out and find a Satguru.
Of course Satgurus don't advertise themselves.
Usually. Because the last thing they want is lots of people hanging around.
But, and different gurus are also obviously trained to work with different types of people.
And what I was trying to do in that book was to bring an awareness of a certain level of spirituality
that is almost unknown in the West.
What we think of as spiritual training or spiritual teaching, it is like preparation for spiritual teaching.
A lot of the practices that have been given. A lot of the teachings that have been given
are the preparation that you go through. And it can take 20, 30, 40 years of preparation.
Until you are ready to actually receive real spiritual energy.
That takes you to a different level of consciousness.
And part of my work is to bring that awareness to the West.
Because it doesn't seem to be part of our Western spiritual understanding at all.
And not only on an individual level, but also that these holders of spiritual transmission are actually
working to help the world, just as an individual goes through a process of spiritual evolution.
The world is going through a process of spiritual evolution.
And some of these great masters have access to a certain energy that is needed to help the world to awaken.
To activate certain power centers in the world that have been dormant until now.
And I am very interested as to what will happen when they get woken up.
These power centers. Because if you look back in human history you see that
some of these power centers are actually visible. For example Stonehenge in England
was at onetime. Obviously that's why it was built. Those enormous stones being raised up.
In a very, very precise geometric pattern.
And it was a power center that was used to help the spiritual evolution of that area.
In the same way work is being done on the Egyptian pyramids to see how they work
as transformers of spiritual energy.
And so there is this whole history of spiritual power.
And something I've been very aware of listening to a lot of very well meaning, well-intentioned people
who are talking about our present global condition and how to work with it.
Is that they, there is this consciousness that we have to do it all on our own.
That we have to somehow change the climate and get it back and.
We have to transform the world.
And one thing you know when you do spiritual work is you can't do it on your own.
Rumi says quite categorically that with all one's effort one cannot even get to the first way station.
Now if you can't change and transform yourself on your own,
there is no way that we can change and transform the world on our own.
It is like this saying I often repeat that my wife Anat first said to me when she went to a talk on sustainability.
She said they're all talking about sustainability, but nobody's talking about the sustainer.
And it's like somehow that particular central piece of information has been censored from our society.
So all these people are trying to work very well intentioned.
But they don't have the power or the energy that is needed to actually change anything.
Because you can't even get to the first way station.
And it's very interesting how that central piece of knowledge has been censored from our collective consciousness.
You know there was a time in societies in the past when you wouldn't even have dreamed of doing anything
without first of all consulting the oracle. But you know, including the Divine.
And I think that those of us who were kind of mature enough to realize that it isn't my God or somebody else's God.
Nobody has the right God. Or the wrong God. That we can realize there is this Divine power.
That is waiting to be used.
And there are ancient esoteric traditions about using this Divine power.
This is their...Yes, they have been hidden. And part of my work is to make some of them known again.
In public. Because as I say I don't think we can make this next, in fact I know we can't
make this next step in evolution without working with this Divine power.
Whether we work with the angelic planes, but there is also, um, there is certain energy that
can activate these power centers in the world.
And it's very interesting that there is a, for example a tradition that George Washington was clairvoyant.
And he actually founded D.C. on a power center.
And it's actually right where the cathedral is, in this place in D.C. there's a power center there that is not active yet. No.
A little bit. But it's no active. You know which is an interesting part of American spiritual history.
So there are these, some of these power centers. There is one here in the Bay Area.
Which is why we're here.
It's the only reason I came to work in this part of America.
Is because there is a very powerful spiritual center that has to do with the next stage of human evolution.
That is here in the Bay Area. Which is one of the reasons a lot of spiritual groups
and traditions were drawn to this area.
Because there are certain souls that are waiting to work with the energy that is here.
It's a little bit active. It's not fully active.
It can, when fully operational, it can give people direct access to a completely different level of consciousness.
In which the future will become very, very apparent.
And so they can work it.
I mean you can see a little bit of how that's been reflected in Silicon Valley.
And a certain awareness of computer science which has a part to play in the next stage of,
quite a different part from what most people understand.
But it has a part to play in the next stage of human evolution.
There is a very powerful energy center in this particular fault line.
That is waiting to get activated. It is very beautiful.
There are actually very beautiful angels watching over it so it doesn't get misused.
Because it's very, very precious.
And, um, yeah.
I was wondering if you could talk a little more about the future of science.
The future of what?
The future of science and the oneness.
The future of science.
That you spoke of in your talk earlier.
You know about, it will be a science of the oneness.
Oh yeah.
As opposed to what we have now if you might elaborate more on that.
Well one aspect of this science of the oneness is actually I have a strong sense that
part of the science of the future will be the interaction of the inner and the outer worlds.
Which is where magic happens.
Again we live in a very kind of poor world because we've banished magic.
And there are many forces in creation which could be understood as magical
which we haven't learned how to work with or we used to know how to work with and we have now forgotten.
I'll just give you a little example which is cause I studied medieval architecture when I was younger.
And there is a tradition that the stained glass windows in Chartres Cathedral
Which was kind of an archetype of the Gothic cathedrals were made by alchemists.
And they actually transformed the light that comes through them and they don't know how to do that anymore.
So there are many magical and spiritual sciences that we've lost contact with
because we have focused on the physical plane. Science has been science in the physical world.
And I think that in the future we're going to have to reawaken to the magical dimension but not,
before in a way just, it wasn't grounded in like physical science as we have now.
And I think they can work together. I think the inner and the outer can work together.
I am for example fascinated about, I think a lot of the energy of the future will come from light.
I personally believe, this is just my personal belief, that light is part of the science of the future.
And the way light works and the energy of light.
And of course light is a very powerful energy source we are beginning, just beginning to learn how to harness.
There are many different frequencies of light. And many different ways to work with light.
It completely doesn't pollute at all. It's free. Everybody can have access to it.
Even the people who live in England. They get it for four or five days a year.
Can I ask you a little bit more about the light since you mentioned that.
Because that was another question in my mind.
And when you were working with Adyashanti in a workshop in San Rafael,
in November. I was meditating when the group was meditating, but I was at home.
And I noticed that the light in the environments intensified.
Yeah. Of course.
It was striking to me that that happened.
And I was wondering if you could talk a little bit, and the same is going on here today.
That there was this you know radical intensification of the light while we were meditating.
So could you speak a little bit more about that?
Ok. Every human being has a light. Yeah?
And a lot of spiritual practice is how to develop that light, how to work with it.
There's a whole spiritual body of knowledge that creating a light body.
And so the light within you begins to change you, it transforms you.
There is also a light in the body of the planet.
And while I was talking about the little practice we did at the beginning of the meditation
It has to do with the light within you.
The pure light within you can directly interact with the light of the planet.
And then there can be this dialogue of light.
And I am quite fascinated by how that will work.
One of the things is this hasn't been done before.
We're used to things, you know, we do it because it's been done like this.
Remember we're stepping into a new level of evolution.
And so a lot of things haven't actually happened before.
The idea that individual, the light of an individual can directly interact with the light body of the planet.
Is, you know it has been done by very evolved spiritual masters and their disciples.
But the fact that anybody can have a go is new.
And so that is one way of working with light.
And when there is this dialogue of light.
One Sufi Kubra who talked about that light and he said
"Light upon light. Light rises towards light. And the light comes down upon light. And it is light upon light.
And so there is this whole mystery of working with light that belongs to the spiritual process.
in which your light attracts a greater light. Again I said you can't do this work on your own.
Part of the beauty of it is as you can see here, there is our light there is also another light
in this room now because we are actually doing this dialogue of light together.
And once it starts to interact it goes up an octave. It goes into another dimension of light.
And, which really, how that affects consciousness. Light is a very, very direct mode of communication.
Which is why it's now very interesting we've now been given these tools of fiber optic cables.
Of communicating with light, even on the physical plane.
It's actually how for example the higher selves talk, you having a conversation with somebody's higher self
It's a dialogue of light. It goes direct. And there's no interference.
There's no misunderstanding because, just like one of the reasons they like to use fiber optic cables is because
you can put an enormous amount of information into a very small amount of fiber optic cable.
And it gets to the other end almost perfect.
Because light works like that.
And, um, so it is, but it, there will be, it will work on all sorts of different levels.
Right down to how to use solar power properly.
How to, you know, develop the science of really understanding, for example,
plants use, what's it called, photosynthesis, alright? And scientists do not yet understand this basic process.
Of converting sunlight into energy that a plant does.
I don't think, unless somebody's got some new science.
From what I understood, they still don't understand how that, the process that every leaf, every blade of grass uses.
How it transmutes sunlight.
And so there is you know the natural world has an understanding of how to use light to make energy.
Which we have yet haven't accessed.
They say the alchemists had a whole understanding of light which we've lost.
And can be certain people can be trained to bring through, bring back some of that understanding.
So it's very exciting because there's an enormous amount of power in light.
And it's free. And this is again. No, this is actually very, very important as far as I can see.
Is that the energy source of the future, we're moving into an era of global oneness, it has to be free.
It cannot afford to be controlled by a small cartel of people.
And it also actually happens spiritually because when you get to the plane of the Self,
which is the plane of oneness, everything there is free and everything there is available.
It's a very beautiful experience because there there is no effort.
In this physical world things happen through effort.
You'd have to make an effort even to get here this afternoon.
You had to make an effort. You had to get in your car or walk or whatever it is.
On the plane of the Self which is a plane of pure light. It's a very beautiful plane, a plane of pure light.
There is no effort. It works because there is no friction.
There it is not a plane of duality. It is a plane of oneness.
And so it works very, very efficiently. And that's again why I talked about the science of oneness.
It is much more cost effective than the science of duality.
Because it doesn't have the friction of duality. And it works very beautifully.
And so there are all different levels of working with light that I think in a hundred years time we'll begin to have more understanding of.
Even on a basic level it's a completely non-polluting energy source.
Father Thomas Merton talks about the difference between genitality and sexuality.
Aha.
In terms of being celibate. And his ability to use his full sexuality to support his purpose in bringing God's work to the world.
And I'm curious what you might say about the idea, in my belief,
that women, the oppression we've had for hundreds and thousands of years have a very narrow sense of sexuality.
That is more like genitality. And if we were to fully blossom into the full creative powers of our sexuality
How would that help oneness in its full blooming?
I can maybe just talk a bit from the other side being a guy.
Which is, and really having done the guy stuff in the past. You know I had lifetimes of the guy stuff.
Which is that there are many spiritual practices which cut a man off from his instinctual nature
which includes his sexuality and sexuality gets transmuted.
Sexuality is kundalini. It's that energy. And there are practices where you raise the energy up.
Until it no longer functions on an instinctual level.
And there are lots of monastic...one of the things I always feel sad about the priests in the Catholic church
is that they've got to be celibate, but nobody gave them the practices of what to do.
Because in the monastery you got the practices to transmute your sexual energy.
So you got to be celibate because there was a reason, because you were using that energy
not on an instinctual level for procreation. But you were using it to transmute it, to take you up to higher spiritual states.
And as I say, I often thought it's hard when the, because they never gave the priests practices to do.
Now what I have discovered because I have a strange karma.
I say I've been a monk for many, many, many lifetimes.
And I come back and have to have to help women. You know.
And I discovered that women functioned completely differently.
And there is a rule that a woman should never separate herself from her instinctual nature.
She should never cut it off.
And then I discovered that a woman's sexuality and spirituality are very closely intertwined.
In a way they're not for a man.
And this is something actually my teacher said, my sheik in India.
Because he said women and men are actually made spiritually differently.
And a woman, there's a certain substance, spiritual substance, that a man has to create within himself.
And he does it through practices.
And he said a woman already has it, already in her chakras.
He said a woman is already perfect.
This spiritual substance that a man has to make a lot of effort to create after renunciation and all that.
A woman already has it in her chakras.
And that is because she is part of the mystery of creation.
And she has the potential to give birth.
So she has to be able to give that perfect being to her child.
So she already has it, everything already perfect within her.
And sexuality is a feminine mystery. It is part of the mystery of creation.
As you rightly say because we have a, we've come from a patriarchal history,
Men do not understand that. Sexuality is actually not a male mystery.
Men don't understand sexuality.
The relationship between feminine sexuality, feminine power, feminine spiritual nature is all together.
And it doesn't mean a woman has to have sex, it means that she should not separate herself from her sexual nature.
And she should not practice a certain renunciation that is part of the male practice.
She should never, ever cut herself off from her instinctual nature.
If she does, she loses an essential connection to life and the wholeness of life.
And through a woman's nature, I say in which her spirituality and her sexuality are very close together,
This was understood by the priestesses and whole tradition of the sacred prostitute.
And many, many other ancient traditions that the patriarchy oppressed, censored, destroyed.
There is a certain energy that comes through a woman, that comes through her spiritual and her sexual being
into life, that is essential for the spiritual well-being of the world.
And there is, this actual energy is lacking very much in our present culture. In our present relationship to life.
In our present relationship to the world. It actually stops the world from opening in a particular way.
Because it doesn't have that substance.
It stops the world from behaving like a sacred being that it is.
And there is a certain work that is being done by women that has to do with bringing that energy back into creation.
And it can only be done by women.
A man cannot do it because a man's body, spiritual body and physical body are structured differently.
It is not. It is not perfect in the way a woman is perfect.
My teacher said a woman is like gold, always pure.
Pure, not perfect.
And so there is a certain spiritual work that can only be done by women,
that has to do with their sacred connection to life and their sexuality is part of this.
In a way that is not really understood in the West today at all.
There are, you can see in certain Hindu traditions there are kind of memories of that.
I don't know if it's really alive in India any more.
But there are women in the West who are actually beginning to do that very, very important work.
As I say it has to do with their instinctual, natural connection to life, to the physical energetic body of the world.
Through which a certain spiritual substance can be infused through their spiritual vehicles into the world.
To help it first of all to purify it from certain male thought forms and certain male destruction.
That has done certain horrible things to the world.
And until that is done, so this energy has been put back into the world, then it cannot transform.
It's important work.
It's vital work. I write about it in some of my books. It's a work.
And I have a sense that is one of the reasons that in the West so many souls that are attracted to spiritual work have incarnated as women.
Because my sense is that men do a different work. That work can only be done by women.
And women who have a certain spiritual maturity.
To look beyond their own personal well being, to a connection to life, to a connection to the whole.
It's very, very important. Until that is done, something else cannot take place.
Thank you.
Is there anything else I should add?
Do you want to take the microphone?
It just reminded me of a vision which I had. It was in Barcelona two years ago.
And I did not realize until I came to Barcelona actually that that used to be the center
of the Black Madonna. And I didn't know that until almost I left Barcelona.
But I was in my hotel to my surprise in the center of Barcelona which was just in the middle of the
hustle and bustle of thousands of people just passing by every single moment.
And in the center of, near the hotel, there was the very old cathedral.
That the Black Madonna was worshiped there.
And they still actually keep the white geese that they had how they used to do it in the ancient time in the middle of the cathedral.
And there actually is a sculpture of the Black Madonna there.
And I had this vision. In the night. I woke up.
And I suddenly saw there was in the area a lot of catacombs. You say catacombs inside the...?
Catacombs, yeah.
Yes. And I saw this woman. She was in prison in those catacombs for so long.
And then she came out. And first as if her face was like a man.
A beautiful man with very white long beard. It was still a man.
But then she was free from that sitting in those catacombs.
And she became herself again. She was the most beautiful woman I had ever seen.
She had very long hair, almost like emphasizing the freedom of the feminine in a certain way just expressing itself.
And she was wearing this beautiful simple gown. She was just the most amazing woman I'd ever seen.
And then she has taken, suddenly in her hand appeared this shell conch.
And she took it to her mouth. And she started to make a sound from it.
And there was the most extraordinary sound that she created, that she made.
It was the most organic, natural amazing sound. And it was heard.
So your question, that you asked Llewellyn somehow and his answer reminded me of that vision that I had.
Because that natural, instinctual sound, the calling, it's calling to the Divine, to God or whatever you'd like to call it.
It doesn't matter. That. And it was heard. And I thought that was again the woman come back.
And can use the most natural, instinctual way of being and use it and it was heard.
I wanted to share that. I never shared that before. Thank you.

Oneness and Life: QUESTIONS with Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

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