Tonight: Sea Launch 11 files for chapter eleven which looks a lot like this Obama is being compared to Kennedy; NASA is looking for leaks, and different options for the space shuttle replacement. Do we go with the Constellation program as is? Do we go with NASA's plan B, or something a little more like DIRECT? Who knows? Let's talk about it. All that and a whole lot more on this June 26th edition of Spacevidcast. ♫♫ Spacevidcast Theme Music ♫♫ This is the all new, three frames per second version of Spacevidcast Cariann: Look at this I can do the robot really easily. Ben: CamTwist Fail! Ben: Welcome to Spacevidcast. My name is Benjamin Higginbotham and with me is the beautiful, lovely, wonderful, talented and YES, It's Really Her, Cariann Higginbotham. We are the Spacevidcasters. There's a lot a really cool stuff happening in space and all around space You know we were mentioning in the car earlier that there seems to be a lot more interest, like in the last month or so. Just a lot more interest in space travel and space in general for some reason. It could be because of the Apollo 40th. Cariann: Well it's interesting because you say 'for some reason' and I'm like, well, Apollo 40th is coming up, it's the year of the Apollo 40th. Granted, like we said, when we started this podcast, I said you have a month's worth of topics, tops And then after that, we're done. Ben: And yet here we are a year and something later and we're still going. There's a brand new web site we wanted to bring up. It's called "EVADOT", evadot? Cariann: E V A D O T .COM Ben: And they've got some...First off they've got some great podcasts and whatnot, but they also have these really cool shirts. That are available for sale. Cariann: Really cool. Ben: That are available for sale. And you can go to EVADOT.COM, thanks guys that's a lot like saying slashdot. We have a picture of those shirts if you want they're down yonder somewhere. And those shirts are really, really cool. We really like them. We saw those and we were like they're really awesome. Cariann: ♪They're so cool♪. Ben: Check it out, the one on the left you've got the neat little rocket. I think that's my favorite. Then the one in the middle you've got the cool little rocket from the base, and they have a bunch of different styles. Cariann: Men's and women's. Ben: Yep. Now we don't get anything for promoting this. We're not saying you have to buy anything we we're just saying BOTH: They're really cool! And the point is that not only do they have a store with these cool shirts, they've got a podcast that they've started. They've got a blog. Cariann: The entire website is just really amazing and we've tried to connect up a little bit. So I'm going to try to re-blog some of the stuff Michael's got on his blog, put it over here so we can kinda of cross pollinate a little bit. He takes a little bit more serious tone in general. Ben: We don't. Cariann: Because he's smarter than us. That's pretty much it. Ben: Have they done the Moon Pie Challenge? I'd say there's a question. Cariann: They have not but we are working on that. Ben: But even outside of that, we've got the Space Week on Science channel that has been going on this entire past week. And if you're watching this show you missed it. So congratulations. Cariann: TiVo people...Hello Ben: You know what's really funny? Space Week? I don't think I've watched any of it. Cariann: Well that's not true. We have watched it. We watched it before it was Space Week. Ben: I suppose that's true. Cariann: So it's like seen that, seen that, never mind. Ben: Space Week on Science channel. And it's like there's just tons of-we've got the space tweep society that been formed. Cariann: ♪awesome♪. Ben: You know it's pretty cool. It feels like once a week there's a brand new space related website. Cariann: Buzz Aldrin is doing, besides rapping with Snoop Dogg. Ben: That's an awesome-we can't show it on Spacevidcast because of copyright. But search YouTube for Buzz Aldrin rap Cariann: Yeah. Assuming you guys haven't seen it, because everyone's seen I don't even know how many times I got tweeted about that or anything along those lines. But in any case, he's also doing his book tour right now, Ben: Yup Cariann: So he's going around the country. If you guys are anywhere near, please go. He is just-besides what he has already done, he's still an interesting guy. You how some people they sort of kinda live back in the day of "When I created, whatever..." Ben: He keeps looking forward. Cariann: He keeps looking forward, exactly. And he's just amazing and very energetic. And. I don't know. For an old guy, he's not too bad. Ben: Speaking of looking forward, that's what we're going to be talking about on the back half of the show. We're going to be looking forward to what NASA is going to do to get to the moon. Is it going to be Ares? Is it going to be the side mounted shuttle? Is it going to be DIRECT? What are their options, what can we do? Cariann: (reading from chat) Absolutespacegirl: JEALOUS! Keep going. Ben: What? Buzz Aldrin kissed Absolutespacegirl? Cariann: Even Ben is jealous about that. Ben: I think I'm jealous. I'm not sure. It's kind of awkward right now. I'm not sure what to say. So looking forward with all that stuff. And Buzz Aldrin talked about, a little bit about that at the ISDC conference 2009 in Orlando. If you'd like to see that you can go to spacevidcast.com/isdc2009, or you can just search for ISDC on Spacevidcast and check out Buzz Aldrin. We've got his entire keynote, right there that you can watch. Cariann: Over lunch. Ben: Over lunch. And he, y'know the first part I'll be frank. The first part, ~meh~. It was a little bit more read, a little more scripted. But then after that he kinda started really getting into it. Cariann: Right. Ben: And really interacting with everyone. It was pretty cool. Cariann: That was the part you paid for, for the keynote. If that makes any sense. The other stuff. Ben: Well you pay for everything. Cariann: R-r-r-right. Ben: It's a $150 ticket versus a $600 ticket. Cariann: Right. But what my point is though, that...you go in, and like you said, it's a little bit more read. It's probably a talk that he's given before. A talk you can get a hold of somewhere else on the internet. But that last part. Ben: The last half. Cariann: Right. If you weren't there, you didn't see it. You know what I'm saying? Ben: Yes. Cariann: Like we saw it. And we broadcasted it. Ben: But you need to be there. Cariann: Right. Ben: Because there was a, there's always that...there's just something that you can't... there's something. Cariann: They're always saying, "Oh, well you had to be there." THAT was the part that you had to be there for. Ben: That and the Buzz Aldrin was there and like 20 feet away from me, Cariann: ♪awesome♪ Ben: That was pretty cool. I was too scared to be like... (speaking 'nerdy') "Urr awesome. You walked on the moon. I'm a nerd. hehehe." Cariann: Yeah, he walked about four feet away from me and I totally just, ♪AhhAhhAhAhh♪. Didn't say anything. I just like (heavy breathing). Absolutespacegirl got to..y'know..I'm starting to (joking) hate Absolutespacegirl. Completely jealous in every way, shape and form. Escort him, Space Camp. I just don't even know what to do. Ben: So on the note of all the new cool space things that are popping up, if you guys see neat, nu, new, I'm stuttering at this point, neat, new. We're talking about Buzz Aldrin. I'm just "duh, duh, duh ,duh." Cariann: I know. Ben: If you see neat, new, interesting stuff... Cariann: Let us know. Ben: Let us know. benjamin@spacevidcast.com, and cariann@spacevidcast.com. I'm @bencredible, twitter, you're @cariann Let us know. We'd love to post it, talk about it. We'd love to share it with the entire community. It's cool stuff. Cariann: Very. Very, very. Ben: With that, I think it's time to get started with a little bit of Space News. (dramatic music) ♫Space news♫ Ben: (relieved) Ohhhh. Cariann: We weren't sure. Ben: I was waiting for Space News to fail. Cariann: (silly, laughing). Ben: O K! Cariann: But it didn't fail. Ben: I was so worried about space news failing- (to Adam) you got to take it out of preview though because our frame rate is dead. I was so worried about space news failing that I forgot what we were talking about. OH! Sea Launch has, Sea Launch, you saw it in the intro has filed for Chapter 11. Cariann: (quietly) Yeah. It's kinda sad. Ben: That's pretty much the end of the story. Chapter 11 doesn't mean they're done though. Cariann: N-n-n-no. And this is public knowledge of course, it's been put out. We actually got the, notice, if you will. It's right on their website. They've got the entire media release, (reading from chat) exactly, reorganization. Ben: Well no. Chapter 11 doesn't mean shut down. It just means reorganize, Reform. I think it's Chapter 13, if I remember correctly that means, pfft, we're done. Cariann: Right. That's my understanding. Ben: You keep talking, I'll be right back. Cariann: Sorry. So Chapter 11 is just a reorganization they owe a lot of money (reading from chat) "chapter 11 comes before chapter 12". They owe a lot of money. They clearly are not making up the deficit that they have got going on and so they're trying to reorganize some stuff and figure out this, that and the other and other stuff like that. Ben: That's a good question (reading from chat) push2play asked, "Will the Augustine Commission look at them after they're done with NASA?" Well, Sea Launch isn't part of NASA so I'm not sure why the commission would look at them per se', or look at them as an alternate launch platform I don't think they have the launch capability. Cariann: They can't do big launches which is the. Ben: The ARES V type launches. Cariann: Right. But they can do little, cute, like satellite launches, but so can, y'know Space America. Not America. Mexico, is what I'm trying to say. Ben: Space America? (facetiously) Space America Port. The awesome part about Sea Launch, and why Sea Launch is such a good idea is because they can get right, dead, on the equator. And my when you that, my understanding, and I would love a rocket scientist, because we have some in the room to certainly comment on this, is that you can actually bring about 10 to 13% more payload up because there's an additional maneuver you do not need to perform while ascending. Cariann: Right, and they can go anywhere they want, especially, right at the equator, which is nice. Ben: They just roll out their ships right to the equator and, boom. Off you go. So as Carbon says, you can bring more payload, but he's not sure how much. The number I saw, which was in a trusted article was 10 to 13% Dependent upon a few variables. Cariann: Right. Ben: was my understanding but that was the number that I saw. Didn't actually just make up 10-13%. That's kind of a weird number to make up. This doesn't mean that Sea Launch going away. Cariann: No. Ben: I really kind of liked Sea Launch, because you know, you got to see the cool explosion video. Cariann: Well, they were one of the very few people that sort of opened themselves up to the community, as a whole Ben: ~kinda~ Cariann: Well, for the most part. They didn't have a Twitter account., But we could tap into their Ben: Even SpaceX by the way. Cariann: yeah..well..hmm. But we could tap into their feed. We could show what was going on. They were always y'know. They would let us know..they would call me up and say, Ben: (sarcasm) "Hey Cariann, Ben. We're going to launch!, You want to cover us?!?" Cariann: But the media was readily available, and it was easy to access. And that's really important. And I think that's a very big deal. And I appreciate that about them a lot. Ben: Right. And SpaceX does the same thing, but...It was a really interesting thing. It was a really concept. I think they'll actually get out of this because, I think that if they can survive until 2010, 2011, I think we're going to start seeing a boom, in this market. Cariann: Everyone is going to need them. Ben: This is the big economy in my humble, but accurate opinion. And so, Sea Launch has the opportunity to do some really cool things. But, there going to get stiff competition from the, like...competitions. Cariann: Competitions. Ben: COMPETITION. We're going to get stiff competition from companies the likes of SpaceX and companies that haven't even been formed yet. Cariann: Like Space Mexico. Ben:(laughing) Space Mexico. Cariann: What? I *like* them. Ben: President Obama is being compared to President Kennedy. Check out our cool graphic. Unfortunately, he 'eats' our live chat room (overlapping talk). It wasn't really designed with the chat room in mind, was it? Cariann: No, it wasn't. But it's still a very very cool Ben: So why is he being compared to President Kennedy? Cariann: We're kinda coming up across-up against-we're coming to that point where, uh, Ben's drinking again-STOP IT! where Obama is going to need to make some very important BIG decisions when it comes to NASA and the space program in general. Ben: Right. Cariann: And Kennedy kind of came up to the same-it was for a completely different reason. A completely different situation. We're not at war. We're not trying to get to the moon. Ben: Well, there was a space race. Cariann: Right. Ben: No one had gone to the moon yet. No one had done this stuff and Russia, frankly, was kicking our butt. Cariann: Yes. Ben: They were just obliterating us in every way, shape and form. Cariann: Right. But basically in this particular, you know, we don't have something pushing our hand at this point. But, I would not call the economy. Ben: Aaaah, considering there's the space race 2.0. We've got China, we've got Russia kinda doing it again-I mean, it's a different kind of pushing. Cariann: That's what I'm saying. Ben: It's a gentle nudge. Cariann: That's what I'm saying. It's not this ever present prevalent sort of like you (emphasizing with fist into palm) must get it done now. However, the choices that he's making now are going to be very very big choices. Even though if they sound like they're little choices, it's the fallout from whatever it is that he chooses is going to be huge. And so I think that's where the-- Ben: It doesn't have to be fallout. I mean it could be good. Cariann: Well, good fallout. I don't know, it's a domino effect. And this is THE domino. Ben: So, yeah... Here's where I disagree a little bit in that Kennedy basically was there at the formation of NASA. So they could do whatever it was they wanted to do in structuring NASA and they built NASA with the Cold War kind of in mind. They structured across the country. There's a center in-well, there's centers all across the country. That way, you could bomb one part of the country, you could take out one section of NASA, but the rest of NASA is still there. Cariann: Right. Ben: Well, it's not exactly the most efficient way to do things anymore. Cariann: Not so much. Ben: We can't go back on that anymore. Cariann: Right. Ben: We've already got all of this legacy infrastructure and this legacy mind set and this legacy everything and I'm not so sure that NASA no matter Obama does, no matter what he says we need to do, I'm not sure NASA is agile enough to make the changes necessary to make it happen. The only organizations I think that are going to be able to that, in my humble opinion, it may not be accurate this time, would be privatized space travel. Cariann: Well, right. But he could also make decisions kind of pushing the entire industry in that way. Do you see what I'm saying? Ben: I completely agree. NASA needs new young blood. Cariann: Absolutely. Yes. There definitely needs to be some sort of transfusion. Totally. I completely agree. But that's what I'm saying. He's kinda coming up to a point where he could make some decisions that sound like they're bad for NASA, but are actually going to GREAT for the privatized space industry. It's definitely a balancing act. And it's totally the plate spinning on the sticks. You know, and you've got to keep a couple of them going at the same time and it's not-I do not envy this man in any way, shape or form at all. In this particular, yeah. Ben: Well, what I will say is he's going to make choices that will, one way or the either, help us get to the moon or will prevent us from getting to the moon from a government agency standpoint. Cariann: Right. Ben: I do not see in my little horizon meter, my crystal ball as it were, I do not see any privatized companies really making an actual effort, and I don't want to say an actual effort. I haven't seen a plan that is valid for going to the moon from a private company yet. Nothing that's actually doable. Nothing from a funded company that could make it there within the next 15 years. Now, because they're a private company, they can move much quicker than the government, so they may not need as much time. I understand that, but I just don't see that happening there and I'm afraid that if the government doesn't go back to the moon, more importantly, on to Mars, the private companies won't do it. Cariann: Thank you, Buzz, Jr. Ben: Really? Cariann: Yeah, that's totally what I'm saying. Ben: That's kinda what he says. I didn't agree with everything he said. Speaking of NASA-they're looking for leaks-- Cariann: They are. Ben: Still. Cariann: Yeah. So, this is what we're talking about. STS-127. I know you guys are really chomping at the bit for the information and what's going on with STS-129 and there's a lot of rumors and all kinds of weird things that are circulating out there and so we didn't really want to touch it at this point. They're still investigating-We're still investigating-there's a lot of stuff. So, we didn't really want to go there. However, talking about STS-127, remember the... ... GUCP [Ground Umbilical Carrier Plate] [Ben and Cariann laughing and trying to pronounce the name] We're cracking ourselves up. No one else thinks it's funny but us. But I think it's funny. Cariann: Words. Ben: Yeah, Uncle BS is going to have to transcribe this. They're going to have to try to figure out what words do we put for gubufuf. Cariann: You just smash your fist on the computer and that's it. It's like the cat was, you know, there. That's what you do. Anyhow, so they're going to try and do some fueling tests next week to see where the leaks are and stuff like that. Ben: That's a big deal because fueling that thing up is not a short easy thing. They're going to have to de-tank the whole thing again, too. Cariann: Right. My understanding is that they're not using actual fuel, but they're using it's not a fuel simulant, what am I trying to say? [Laughs.] It's something that [laughs and gives up]. Ben: [Chortling] That's my wife, ladies and gentlemen. Cariann: Oh, shut up. I hate all of you. So, no. Ben: Just a lower octane fuel, is that what they're gonna. Cariann: [Sarcastically] They're going to use water. I don't know what they're using, but they're using something so it won't be as flammable and we won't have to worry about it nearly as much. We just want to see if there's leaks for not. And that's pretty much what it is. Ben: Are they going to do like the test where they take the colored water and stick it in there and see where it's leaking out-one of those. Cariann: Yes. Ben: Colored water. Alright. When we come back--Actually, before we do that 'cause we're going to have in there we're going to have the Crow River Coffee commercial. Cariann: [Speaking to the crew.] I do love you guys, you know I do. And you love me simply because I screw up all the time. Makes him look better. Ben: Although I do pretty awesome on my own. We're going to go to break and we're going to do the Crow River Coffee commercial and, as you guys know, we are hosted by the Crow River Coffee Company. This is all done in the Coffee Company, in the back part of the Coffee Company and they built (built?) Cariann: Built. Ben: They built their own blend of coffee, Blastoff Blend. Check it out. Now this is actually someone's bag of Blastoff Blend ... Cariann: This is Uncle BS's. Ben: Uncle BS wrote, he bought that bag-I think we're gonna sign it. I'm gonna sign it right now. Shall I sign it over the Cariann: Oh. Ben's going to sign it. Uncle BS wants it signed. He doesn't know that he wants it signed, but it's going to be worth way more money. Cariann: Well, and Ben: Way more money this way. I don't know where to sign it. Shall I sign it here? Cariann: Sure. Ben: There you go. Check it out. Cariann: Yeah, actually somebody was asking earlier if we could sing it. But, I don't know if I'm up to that. There we go. So, there, signed by Benjamin and me. Ben: Now, the real reason why he got this signed is because right before this show started, he ordered this bag of coffee. And this is his bag. We'd like to thank him very much for helping support the Crow River Coffee Company who helps support us. Who helps support you get your feed of us every week. So, by buying this, you're helping yourself. Cariann: There you go. Ben: We'll be right back. ♪♫♫♪ ♫♫ Cariann: [Both laughing.] Look how red you are-look how red you are. He's like "Oh, I did something kind of [laughing and trying to speak] I wish you guys could see him right now. He's-- Okay. Anyway, I don't believe it's not butter. He was like "I did something fun with the calendar." Okay, have fun with that. Ben: I do that a lot actually. I put a lot of Easter eggs on the calendar 'cause I figure, you know, maybe they're not reading it. And this just entices them to... Cariann: Well, and there's-- you've written like an entire paragraph. Ben: No, no. I steal from Wikipedia is what I do. I'm too lazy. Cariann: Exactly. It's totally like NASA. (In voice over voice) And, then, when they decided to go across the ... Ben: I completely dissed SpaceX. "Will this one blow up too?" [Laughter.] Cariann: So, yeah, I know every once in a while you just take out like once sentence in the middle of it. You're not really reading this. And then they decided to. Oh well. Ben: Yeah. It's fun. Cariann: For those SpaceX who can take it, for those of you guys who saw the ISDC panel that SpaceX was on, she freely said admitted and said beforehand "I will take even the dark, dirty, downright mean questions. I will take them. I want them. And she did. She took them, she read them. She tried to answer-she didn't really answer, but that's beside the point. SpaceX knows we love 'em. We kid because we care. Cariann: And, actually, for those of you questioning us making fun of SpaceX, they have ordered a few pounds of coffee from us. Ben: [in grand salesman style] THIS KIND??? Actually, no. Cariann: No, I don't think they could at the time, but they probably will soon. Ben: Actually, here's a little insider secret. Once SpaceX ordered that coffee, we realized they ordered it, that's when we like maybe we should make our own blend of coffee. And that's where this was born out of. So you can all thank SpaceX for Blastoff Coffee. Cariann: So, yeah. There you go. They love us, we love them. It's a little push-nudge. You know. Ben: SpaceX is awesome and frankly I think the future of space travel is in the hands of companies like SpaceX, Virgin Galactic, Armadillo Aerospace, so forth and so on. But today's main topic is two things. First, it's our anniversary today, so happy anniversary. Cariann: Hi, happy anniversary. Ben: Happy anniversary. And second, space shuttle. It's going to be retired in 2010 and what are we going to replace it with? Ares and there was an argument that broke earlier in the chat room, if you missed it go back 'cause Jeph was all like "aah direct, we have to go direct." And I forgot who said it, Cariann: He had his little tinfoil hat on, too. Ben: I forgot who said it, but they were like, "Oh, Ares just needs more money." And he goes, "More money??" So, Cariann: What do you mean? Ben: That's fundamentally the problem. For those who don't know, Ares is the next generation launch lifter vehicle for NASA's moon program, Constellation. Whoo, that came out rough. Cariann: Mooon program. Ben: The problem with Ares, well, where do we begin? Here's what we've got. Check out this chart. This kind of gives us a past to present. On the left we've got a Saturn 5 rocket. That's what got us to the moon the first time. Pretty big, pretty awesome. That's 60's technology. Cariann: Right. Peple have seen that before, you know what that is. Blah, blah, blah. Ben: Then we move on to 70's technology. Believe it or not, the space shuttle really is 70's technology. And that's what you've got net. And that's what we've been using for the last we'll call it 30 years. Whatever. Next to the right, you've got the Ares I and that's the rocket portion of it. The very top of it is actually the Orion crew capsule. But, the rocket portion of it, and the Ares I is pretty much a five segment solid rocket booster. It's kind of like the two white things on the side of big orange tank for the space shuttle but a little bit bigger. Cariann: Right, but they're on top of each other. Ben: Well, they're not on top. But there's only one as opposed to two. And instead of four segments, it's five. Never been tested and, frankly, one of the problems is that, well, there's many problems, one of the problems is the solid rocket boosters were never designed to have stuff put on top of them and, yeah, they're saying it won't fly. You guys get the idea. The other problem is that because of its shape, they've got a lot of vibration and just things that will pretty much kill the crew and they're having to dampen the vibration which is making it much, much heavier ... Cariann: Look at its shape, look how big, it's bigger on top than it is on the bottom, as opposed you go back to the, what is that an Atlas rocket? And it's bigger on the bottom--you know what you think a rocket should be-bigger on the bottom and smaller on the top. So, Ben: So then, we move one more to the right. The Ares I is designed to bring crew into space, the Ares V, which is the one directly to the right, that's designed to bring cargo into space. A whole freaking lot of cargo. In fact, that Ares V can lift more into low earth orbit, than the Saturn V can, which is on the far left. That's the Ares V. Now, we haven't even really begun doing a whole lot with Ares V. We're still stuck on the Ares I, throwing more and more and more money, billions and billions of dollars at the Ares I and we still don't have a usable vehicle. And, they've still delayed the Ares I test flights. Now directly to the right of that is an ARES IV. My understanding is the ARES IV has actually been dropped off the map. We're not even considering that anymore. That's been like, "Pfft. We're done with that." No need for an ARES IV. That's the plan as it stands today. Now one quick aside before, well that's alright. Didn't the shuttle look awesome? I mean I realize it was the smallest vehicle in that list, but it was definitely the coolest looking vehicle there. I know, I know. I get on this soap box every time, but it just is a cool looking vehicle. Cariann: I still like the Atlas. I like the original. Ben: Now many Spacevidcasters, and you hear this week in and week out, especially if you listen-if you listen?-if you watch the chat room at the bottom, many Spacevidcasters don't think that ARES is going to ever fly. Or, if it does fly it will jack-knife once it gets off the pad or that's assuming it ever can get off the pad. Cariann: Right! Ben: There are people who think there is simply to much weight and ARES will not be capable of lifting it up. Bad. Bad, bad news. So what happens-Oh, and it's radically over budget, radically late, y'know? We don't even know if ARES is going to be a viable vehicle ARES I let alone ARES V, IV, VII or 19 or whatever. So what do we do? What's plan 'B'? Well NASA has a plan B. In fact, they call it...PLAN B! It it NOT a pregnancy thing as everyone constantly jokes about. Cariann: Can I get that at Target? Ben: (laughs) No. You cannot get NASA Plan B at Target. Cariann: DARN IT! Ben: This is their Plan B as has been presented thus far. And what this this is, you cn see on the left is the current Space Transportation System, that's the current space shuttle. What they're looking to do is basically rip the space shuttle off-it's funny that for all the next generation space, the replacement to the space shuttle, the first thing we do is throw the space shuttle away. They mentioned that in the Augustine Commission Cariann: (laughs)..just get rid of the shuttle. Ben: Yes, get rid of the shuttle, exactly. Cariann: We hate that thing. Ben: They're pretty much going to take, take another booster, strap it where the shuttle used to be. Use the existing infra-structure for the shuttle for going up into space. Now there are certain side effects and down falls to this particular configuration. The first of which is that it is not as powerful as the ARES V. It cannot bring as much mass into orbit. The other problem is that in the side mount configuration, the lunar lander would have to shrink from a planned 48 metric tons to around 28 metric tons. Cariann: WOW! Ben: So it's not quite in half, but we're going to call that in half. Cariann: Yeah. That's a huge difference. Ben: Now to put that into perspective though, the Apollo Lunar Lander was around 16 metric tons. So it's still larger than the Apollo lunar lander. Cariann: Yeah, but enough to say that we did something. You know what I'm saying? It's like the percentages don't add up. It's like, "Houses used to be 10% smaller. In 1950, they were blahdeeblah. Well that percentage is like a .3% increase. Who CARES! Ben: Yes. Now the other problem is that we're going back to the moon, to stay, and the lunar lander for the Apollo missions didn't have to be very big because it wasn't there to stay. This time we're building "ootpoost". Cariann: Ootpoost. I'm not sure if the side mount shuttle configuration will work and I've a cost estimate. Cariann: There are a lot of people who are coming up with outpost stuff for the moon that are like, inflatable. They don't have to be whatever size they are at the time that they leave earth. Right? So that's got to help. No? Ben: Put this into perspective really quick. Cariann: Perspective. Ben: Perspective. The current ARES I cost has been 35 billion, with a 'Benny' up front, billion dollars. (Cariann laughs) They think they can do side mount, and this is a very, very rough number, they're not entirely sure yet, for 6.6 billion, with a 'Benny' up front, dollars. That's a lot less money. Cariann: Yes. Ben: SO...I would say go for something that's a lot cheaper and then tack on to it, big it-big it?-build it bigger over time. Kind of like you saw in the graph. It just kept getting like bigger. Bigger. BIGGER and eventually they're like, "RAWR! GIANT THING GO TO MOON!" Cariann: (laughs) Well I mean, and somebody else had mentioned that. I think it might have even been Kai. It's like, "Yeah, well, we like the shuttle. We know the shuttle kinda of works. So why don't we just make it bigger?" Ben: Kind of. Actually, as GISuck says, he doesn't think NASA is going to go back to the moon unless private companies do it first. But as I mentioned earlier, I'm not sure that private companies have any reason to go back to the moon. Other than mining Helium-3...or just doing so they can say they have done it. Unless they give a space tourist option. Cariann: Right. Ben: But even then, I'm not sure you would put something on the moon. Maybe you would just orbit the moon. Like a biggalo thing that orbits between the moon and earth in a figure eight. Cariann: Colbert Hotel? Ben: The Colbert Hotel. Absolutely. So I'm not sure what's going to happen there. Anyhow, I just wanted to bring it everyone's attention that there is a side mount option. Now of course, and Jep-f, and this is where he is going to kick in, there's always the DIRECT option. And we've got the DIRECT 3.0 animation So we'll play that for you...Direct, is the, kinda of what ARES was originally supposed to be..sort of...in a way. ARES has molded and morphed into this weird bastard child that just isn't what it originally set out to be. It originally set out to be re-using a good chunk of the shuttle infra-structure. And here you can see, this is the space shuttle. And what's the first thing we do...that's right, we take the space shuttle, and, we throw it away. (Both laugh). Alright, then we take the same engines, the same Solid Rocket Boosters as they are right now and the engines that came off of the space shuttle we're going to attach those, we're going to get a little skirt on the bottom, it's going to be cute. Cariann: (excited) Can we call it some girlie name? Ben: Sure. We'll give it some pleats. Cariann: Like Ariel? (Ben chuckles) What? Ben: We're going to take the space shuttle main engines. We're going to tack them back on the bottom using the existing main engines. And in this configuration I believe it uses three main space shuttle engines. And Jeph, you can correct me if that's incorrect. You can see how we're reassembling this whole thing. We're taking the existing external tank. The existing Solid Rocket Boosters. The existing space shuttle main engines. We're adding everything up top and we're just configuring it and, BOOM! There you go. There's a Jupiter 130, or what they're calling the ARES III completed model. Now, we want to move into something a little bit bigger so we can get some more mass into orbit we take of the top. Change it out, add another space shuttle main engine to the bottom of it. Cariann: It's just like LEGOs. Ben: You know, it really kind of is. And that's part of the reason why DIRECT is so appealing is because we're using so much of the existing infra-structure, the existing space shuttle technology, but we're turning into something that instead of only at best, being able to make it about three hundred miles up, now we can go to the moon with it. And there you saw the final Jupiter configuration, Jupiter Direct configuration. Yeah, "mutant shuttle". Cariann: You guys, I don't...no offense here, but I don't see what's wrong with a mutant shuttle. I really don't. Because it seems to me that a lot of these parts are already around, already accessible, etc. etc. people already know how to make them which is kind of a big deal. I mean, even for something as stupid as making a new cookie shape even if you had the same flavors as you did before, you have to reconfigure the entire structure to make this new shape. that's kind of stupid. Ben: Well they're still going to have to reconfigure a good chunk of it because the shape is changing. Like the RSS, the Rotating Service Structure, that's going to have to go away regardless. Because, take the orbiter... throw it away (growling noise). Cariann: That's what I'm saying. The more stuff that you can re-use, even if you have to make them new, you know, the people who made them originally, still know how to make them. Ben: So someone just mentioned Frankenstein...Bmac just mentioned "Frankenstein's monster and look at how that turned out." That's actually a very interesting point. Cariann: Okay...that was a ~story~. Ben: It was, but hang on, it's a good analogy in that, rather, in my opinion, rather than trying to re-use the existing infra-structure that we've got. I understand why they wanted to do that, but they shouldn't have done that. they should have started from scratch and said, "This is our objective. This is what we want to do. What is the best vehicle that can get us there? What technology can we build that will do that? And maybe that means building a new vehicle. Or maybe that means using an EELV, a Delta IV heavy, to do what we need to do. Maybe it means doing a DIRECT model." But rather than do that, they kind of...they looked at it backwards, I think and they said, "What can we do to save the most jobs? And what can we do to use the most infra-structure that we've already got?" Not, "What will accomplish our objectives?" Now I'm speaking out of the other side of my mouth. They have 'x' budget... Cariann: Junk Yard Wars...hello? Ben: Well it's not the Apollo days. Right? In the Apollo days, they said, "This is our objective, Now give us all the money we need to accomplish Cariann: Right. To make it go. Ben:...said objective." Now, it's, "This is our objective. Now give us the money we need." and they go, "No. (both laughing) No. You got to fight for that." Cariann: Right? I mean come on. Ben: So. Yeah. I see both sides of it. I mean there's nothing wrong with either side of it. I just...these are the options on the table today. I would love to get your comments and feedback in our chat room at spacevidcast.com. Open up. Let us know what you think. What's going to actually be the future. Are we really looking at an ARES launcher? There's still forging forward with ARES, by the way. Cariann: Well, yeah. Ben: ARES I-X is on track-ish. Cariann: We're way to deep in that one to... Ben: Well we are! We're knees deep in ARES right now. Are they really going to stop everything that they've invested in ARES and move toward a DIRECT architrecture or a side mounted shuttle architecture? Really? I mean..really? but at the same time ARES has so many issues, ~can~ they continue down that path? Cariann: Yeah. I, I, yeah? No? Yeah? Maybe? Ben:(reading from chat)NASA is bogged down in bureaucracy... can NASA get it's head out of it's...Cariann: Backside? Ben:..rocket? (cariann chuckles playfully) Good questions. I don't know. I mean it is not privatized...it's government. This is government. So there's a lot of red tape and a lot of just stuff and...stuff. Now one thing I do disagree with..(from the chat) Hansen did mention NASA should be stripped and rebuilt with new space folk...I completely disagree with that. New space needs NASA, just as much as NASA needs new space. they need each other. Cariann: Yes, ther's definitely a hand-in-hand thing that has to go on. Ben: And when we say their fault at NASA, we talk as an organizational chart. We know a lot of people in NASA. And a lot of the people twitter and are part of the blogging and 2.0. And frankly they're incredibly intelligent people. In fact, I would say some of the brightest rocket scientists in the world are working somehow with NASA. We don't want to lose that brain trust. We don't want to have a re-hash of the Apollo to space shuttle transition. Cariann: Exactly. Ben: That would be bad. We need to maintain that brain trust at NASA. I don't think shutting down NASA is actually a good idea. I think that would actually be a bad idea. I don't think rebuilding it with new space all in one swipe is a good idea either. Cariann: Right. Right. Ben: There are benefits to NASA. The are absolutely benefits to NASA. The problem right now is they are stretched too thin. And you know, that's just the way it is. Cariann: Absolutespacegirl, exactly. That's exactly what we're It's the political system. The engineers are great, the old guys are great. They have the experience. My father referenced...he said it's kind of an Obi Wan kind of thing. You know you've got to go to the guy whose done it before. And fresh eyes. You definitely the fresh eyes to look at it from a different perspective. But you need the old guys to know what's happened before. Ben: we need them both. Cariann: There's no reason to reinvent the wheel. There just isn't. Ben: I disagree with the whole idea of dismantling NASA. Or getting rid of NASA. I don't think that's the right move. I think that there is a place...they are the world's largest space organization right now. As far as I know...other than military space...world's largest space organization. New space, new space needs them. And they need new space. And it's a really awesome synergy that we've got going on right now and a lot of what's coming out of NASA can be found in SpaceX and other companies. And I realize SpaceX they are their own engines they are their own everything else. But y'know, I happen to know that NASA engineers are there helping them out. Giving them some tips and tricks. So you know what...yeah. Cariann: Exactly. Ben: Absolutely. Anyhow, I'll et off that soap box. I want to know what you think! Do you agree? Do you think it should be DIRECT. Do you think it should be the side mounted orbiter? Plan 'B' as they're calling it? Do you think we should continue down the ARES path? ARES I, ARES V, whatever, VII...I forgot what it's called after that. They just keep getting bigger and bigger. Cariann: 23? Ben: They get so big to the point where I think they're just going to shatter all of the windows in the city. It's just to (explosion noises). It's going to be awesome. You liked that? It was a nice little... Cariann: Yeah. That was good. Ben: Let us know at Spacevidcast.com. Of course we love to chat with you guys live. You guys make this show awesome! LIVE! is where it at. You can join us every week. EVERY Friday. 2:00 am coordinated Universal Time. For those of you in the United States that's 7:00pm Pacific time, 8:00pm Mountain time, 9:00pm Central time, and 10:00pm Eastern time. I did that wonder...you see that? Cariann: YEAH. I'm VERY impressed. Ben: Did it again. Just for you guys. Join us live. We love to see you guys live. And if you can't do that, watch us on YouTube. We've got some pretty cool things gong up on YouTube. We've got the FULL Augustine Commission cut into speakers. Cariann: 37 hours or whatever it was. Ben: It is 7 hours of this. Cariann: It's a lot. Ben: The thing is...you really should watch it. Cariann: It another one of those things..I'll be completely honest... it's boring as all get out. But it's interesting as well. You need your Blast Off blend for this stuff because you have to stay awake for... it's kind of like we we're saying with Buzz Aldrin's talk. There's some it that you've heard before and you're like whatever and yeah, yeah, yeah get to the good stuff. But you don't want to fall asleep before the good stuff comes. Ben: Absolutely. Get your Blast Off blend. Help Crow River Coffee, help us help you. So forth and so on. Thank you guys so much for watching. We'll see you...next week.