Oneness and the World Soul: QUESTIONS with Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

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Posted by: oneness on Jun 18, 2009

This event was part of a series of events which were open to all with a sincere interest in the emerging global consciousness of oneness. www.workingwithoneness.org

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I guess what I'm trying to grasp. Maybe it's the ungraspable.
Is just how, on a very practical level, to work with oneness and the spirit of the planet.
It's almost like I'm looking for something like well, am I going to hear a voice talking to me
or have a vision that tells me what I should door not do? And it's just kind of like nebulous.
Yeah. That's a really, really important question.
Which is how is it going to be, this relationship with the planet, with the life of the planet.
And first of all, I don't know how it's going to be for you.
And I don't want to tell anybody how it's going to be because it seems that it's going to be your experience.
And everybody, there is a saying in the Koran "Every being has his own mode of prayer and glorification."
It is like the everybody has their own way of being with God.
And I think everybody has their own way of being with life in a spiritual manner.
And I think first you have to respect your unique relationship, spiritual relationship to life.
For example, I meditate a lot. So for me much is given in meditation.
But not everybody is like that.
And you will find within yourself there is something a very simple essential part of yourself that is with life in a spiritual way.
It can be the way you walk. It can be the way you, I mean there are simple practices like awareness of breath
that can help you. Or Brother Lawrence's practice of the presence of God.
But whatever you do you do with God.
Or I say this very simple Native American practice of walking in a sacred manner.
When you walk and you put your foot on the ground you are aware you are walking in a sacred relationship to the earth.
But these are really all ways to connect you with how it is for you.
And to me the first step is for you to value your relationship to life.
As a spiritual being, part of a spiritual being of life.
And how then life communicates with you is again different for each of us.
For some it can be a voice. For other people it can be just a way of being.
That you suddenly find you're in a slightly different rhythm in yourself and in your life.
For some people it can be chance meetings with other people.
It is like a deeper communion with life opens up.
It is very, very individual.
But that's why it was interesting because at the end when I was told the importance of to trust.
Because if you do spiritual life you have to trust something.
There is this saying of Hazrat Inayat Khan. "It's like shooting arrows in the dark."
You see the bow. You see the arrow. But you don't see the target.
You trust something within yourself.
And what I'm saying is one can take that trust and give it in a spiritual way back to life.
And then I think life knows how to use us.
Because we are part of life.
And I will be really interested like you know in two years to come back
and find out how life has communicated to people in a spiritual way.
Because I think it's, in a way I think it's quite revolutionary because we have separated spirit from matter
in this culture. And we need to find a way to return spirit to matter.
To reclaim that sacred relationship to life.
But the difference is is in past eras it was if you like a collective relationship.
It was a tribal way of being. Or the shaman taught everybody how to be in a sacred manner
and relationship with life. Or it was just something you grew up in.
Everybody behaved like that. It was part of the simple rituals of daily life.
And we have lost that. And I think we need to reclaim it individually.
Just like for example with dreams. Now there was a time not so long ago, a few hundred years ago.
Where one person would have a dream for the tribe.
And then everybody in the tribe would then enact the dream this person had.
And this one dream would tell them for example where to go hunting.
Or if something needed to be changed in their relationship to the world, in their relationship to their environment.
So it was like the dream was for the collective. Or the dream was for the tribe.
And the people respected that and listened to it.
But the change in the West is because we have discovered our individual selves.
We don't want to be given somebody else's dream.
We want to have our own dream.
And many, many people. Many of you here. You have your own dreams. And you listen to your own dreams.
And you learn to understand the wisdom that comes from your own dreams.
And maybe you paint it. Or maybe you enact it. Or maybe you just sit with it.
But it is your dream. Nobody is telling you what dream to live inwardly.
You get told what dream to live outwardly. It's called economic progress.
And I think it's exactly the same way is we have to begin to individually reclaim the sacred relationship to life.
And how it is for one person is not how it is for somebody else.
But at the same time there is in each of us like a genetic wisdom.
An ancient wisdom that of how to be in life in a sacred way.
And how to respect life in a sacred way. And how to listen to life.
Just as you know a thousand years ago if you were going to be a sailor you listened to the weather.
You listened to the sea. You listened to the clouds. You listened. You couldn't sail otherwise.
If you were a farmer, you listened to the land. You listened to the seasons.
So there is an inherent wisdom that we have within us.
That we can reclaim. And then see how it is. And see how it is for each of us.
I had a dream last about some of what you were talking about.
Oh, please. Please share it.
In the dream it seemed that people from our Sufi group had been looking through these ancient manuscripts.
that had been written thousands of years ago. And they were from a few different traditions.
And some of them were prophesied like a big major transformation of civilization that happened several thousand years ago.
And it seemed that most people already knew about this.
I wasn't even clear if it was like 2,000 years ago, the birth of Christ, or if it was longer ago.
But it was something kind of commonly known. Maybe it was in the Bible, in the book of Revelations.
But then people looking through these manuscripts discovered a new prophesy
for this change that's happening now that you've been talking about.
It really equated, the magnitude of it as great as this older one that had happened several thousand years ago.
And it was just very clear that this transformation was going to involve this tremendous, tremendous upheaval.
Just you know, you have talked about where things are going to turn upside down.
And there could be you know destruction and chaos. And yet there was this light that was coming down
into this level of creation and that was the whole purpose.
And somehow because, somehow this had been prophesied in these ancient books
And somehow nobody had really noticed it before.
Somehow there was this power in it that was so great that it was this really thing of destiny.
And magnitude. And somehow it really shook me up as if I'd, somehow even though you've spoken about it
it didn't hit me somewhere on an everyday level but in the dream, the magnitude of the change
and transformation really shook me up because I could see how big it was.
And that it was something that was just like there was only one before that several thousand years ago
that was this big. It wasn't something cyclical.
No it is not cyclical. No. It wasn't 2,000 years ago.
I had a feeling it was like 5,000 years ago.
Yeah.
You know I don't know what to say completely because I don't like to prejudice people.
I don't like to. But I know that an enormous amount of work has been done in preparation for this event.
And what surprises me is really how little interest there is in it.
And I'm not quite sure why.
Because. And I don't know whether this is just this I call it this kind of dark magic
that seems to have gripped people in the pettiness of life.
As I was saying earlier, so much of our attention is now absorbed in just having to get by.
Which is really. You know I even just think back whenever it was, ten years ago,
when we were supposed to be having this leisure society now
And nobody was going to have to work more than three days a week because computers were here.
And computers were going to do all this work for us.
And there were all these plans of how to cope with this Western culture that was going to be really a leisure society.
From now on. And I haven't noticed it yet.
Maybe I just moved to America and nobody is allowed to.
But yeah, it is quite, quite extraordinary and that's why I like, maybe cause I'm Aries
I like to be there at kind of the cutting edge where things come into being.
And where something new is being born. It's tremendously exciting.
But. And yes it is on a scale far vaster than people seem to want to believe I guess.
I understand because we have kind of been conditioned to be both value our security
and to be deeply insecure which is an interesting situation.
We put enormous amounts of energy into this image we have of security, physical, financial, whatever.
Our insurance. And yet, at the same time we are deeply, deeply insecure.
Which means I guess we are deeply unwilling to change.
I remember writing the other day about how people are kind of preparing for a future they actually know will never happen.
You know they are. It is like they have a pension plan for a future they know in their gut is never going to happen.
That in twenty years time we'll be living in some way or other in a very, very different world.
And maybe our ancestors found it more easy to adjust because they were more used to living on the edge.
I don't know.
And you know as mystics we are conditioned to or deconditioned to
It's like London taxis, you know to to turn on a sixpence, to turn around in an instant.
That you're prepared to drop everything even all of your ideas, all of your beliefs even.
Let alone your physical possessions.
What security is there here in our caravaranseri when every moment the camel bells cry pack up your load
One is used to being always asked to move on I suppose
And it's strange because you would have thought, particularly in North America it's a tremendously transient culture.
I remember how that hit me when I first came that nobody here has roots really.
Everybody, I mean how many people here's grandfather grew up in Marin County?
How many people grew up in Marin County themselves?
You know, where I come from, as many do, my grandfather lived, not in the same village I grew up in, but
from my great-grandfather, but certainly not more than forty miles away.
And so you thought then you don't want to move so much because there are kind of the ancestral memories.
But here you would have thought, this culture, particularly in California it would be, programmed, to move, to drop anything
To move on. And it seems this deep resistance to embrace that. I'm not quite sure why.
Because I say most people know that the future the politicians talk about is never going to happen.
It is, it is a dream. Not even a very good dream. But.
My only thinking is because as far as I can understand these changes are going to be so momentous
Nobody really wants to, to recognize them.
You know, if we had a small change then you know then we'd go along with it.
But who really wants the world to wake up?
I mean if the world woke up, I always say cause you know the difference in yourself when you wake up spiritually.f
And it is so completely different.
That's why it's called second birth. You begin again.
All of your values that you had before don't mean anything.
And so I suppose that the very vastness of this change is what terrifies people.
So we invent little changes and little futures that they can try to work with.
I must say the best, most moving description that I have heard of this future actually came from a friend in Australia
who had a vision of the Beloved coming back again into his world.
That the Beloved would return again to his world. And that part of our work was to welcome the Beloved back.
And because there's this strange irony, you know we have got used to God the Beloved the Divine as being something we have to look for.
Within ourselves. Within life. We have to make a relationship with God. We have to struggle.
We have to do our spiritual practices. So we don't forget.
Which is the way it is at the moment. Many of you have done a lot of work so you don't forget.
So you create a relationship with God. But how different would it be if God came back into his world?
If he was visibly present again. I mean if people saw angels again.
It's that beautiful dream, vision of Jacob and the Ladder going between Heaven and Earth.
And the angels ascending and descending.
You know we read it now just as a story in the Bible. But it wasn't.
There was a time, as I said earlier, when the inner worlds were much more visible.
Before this, well, before we turned away from that.
Before we busied ourselves with the toys of triviality.
I mean how. Just think of it. I'm not saying it's going to be like this.
But just think how would our present civilization behave if the angelic world became visible again.
I mean now, it wouldn't know what to do.
It would have no idea what to do.
You know everybody's heard of an angel.
But nobody's seen one.
So, how would our culture behave?
If the angelic world, it's not very far away. There are beautiful angels in this room now.
Because we do a certain work. And we called them to help us.
Beautiful angels.
I can't see them with these eyes, but.
So, I'm not saying it will happen like that.
But just to suggest to you a possible context that is so far out of our present imagining
that you wouldn't know what to do. If the Divine was visible again.
We didn't have to look for it. To search for it. To do practices to claim it.
That's why I love this passage in the Bible in the Garden of Eden when God walked in the Garden of Eden.
And Adam and Eve saw God.
And it was quite normal.
But.
And why shouldn't that happen. Why do we have to accept being banished forever.
Was that the bargain?
Was that the price we paid for, with the angels with flaming swords that kept us out forever?
I don't think so.
It's we've been brought up on this whole myth of alienation, of being banished, of being exiled.
Of the Divine being somewhere else.
And it is like, it is like this experience I had in Seattle airport I've told some of you many times before.
Of when I was in a room waiting for a plane, in a waiting room for a plane to come.
And all these people were there waiting, reading their newspapers, talking on their cell phones.
And suddenly I saw everybody was filled with the Divine.
There were just like, every human being was like just filled with this Divine light.
It came to like not quite the top of their head. It came to about there.
And they were still sitting and talking on their cell phones and reading their newspapers
And I saw, what was extraordinary was not that they were filled with the Divine
But that they weren't aware of it.
That it was the forgetfulness that was so extraordinary.
And we have accepted it. And we don't expect anything else. We expect to live a life of banishment.
Why? And what would happen if it wasn't like that?
And would we know what to do? What would happen to the whole power structures of the world if the Divine was present.
All these silly men in suits trying to make decisions.
It's ridiculous. They have no idea what to do with the world.
They can't control their minds. They can't control their emotions.
And they have fingers on bombs.
I mean, what would they know how to do if the Divine was present?
At the moment we give the destiny of the world as it appears into really slightly let's say, lords of power I wouldn't really trust.
Not even in a dark alley actually.
Certainly not in a game of poker.
And they are playing with the apparent destiny of the world and the apparent destinies of countries.
And there was a time when it wasn't like that.
Still, there are memories when when the world was ruled by the priests of God.
According to the ancient spiritual ways.
I think the last, it's why so many of us are kind of moved by the Tibetan culture.
It was the last one that held that tradition of a country ruled according to spiritual principles by priests.
I'm not saying it was perfect. But there was a time when it was all like that.
And that was the only way...there are actually in Lao Tzu, if you read Lao Tzuhe writes about it. He writes about the earlier times.
And the philosopher king. The idea of the philosopher king.
We can't even imagine what it would be like.
I think it would be so wonderful if the world woke up.
I really do. I am betting on that spin of the roulette wheel because I am a gambler.
And I don't like things that are second rate. Why go for a second rate future. You know?
If you want to bet on a dream, bet on the best possible dream.
I mean, it's also my job description because when somebody comes to me I have to bet on the best possible future for them.
I have to reflect to them, "you are capable of this" because it's written into the soul.
As I said earlier every human being has certain possibilities to live out in the incarnation.
And you can live it at a higher frequency, at a higher vibration or at a lower frequency.
And they say that even the great ones don't know what choice a human being will make at the final initiation.
Because it's free will. Human beings have free will to choose what they want.
And I guess it's also true of the world. I didn't understand that until the last six months.
How much the collective has a certain free will to choose its future.
I'd say it's much more fluid than people know.
But I saw I have to believe in the best possibility for the human being and also the best possibility for the world.
Because why not? Why not bet on the best.
If the world can wake up again. If the heart of the world can start to sing again.
Then my grandchildren can live in a world that's worth it.
Why not. The heart of the world starts to sing. And it sings the ancient song of the remembrance of God.
This incredibly beautiful song of creation because everything in creation praises God.
Every butterfly. Every bee. Every car. Everything praises God.
And if the heart of the world starts to sing that song of the love affair of the creator and the creation and the creation and the creator.
Hm. Well, we'll see. Maybe we should have a meeting again here in 20 years time and compare notes.
I wasn't going to say anything. But you just sort of stimulated something for me when you said
I'd rather live in his dream than this other dream.
And um, it's a real dilemma for me. Where do you decide to step off the dream altogether?
To step off the dream altogether.
Yes.
When do you choose your spiritual or whatever you want to call it, your own joyfulness of being.
And step out of any version of the dream whether it's spiritual or worldly?
When do you decide not to live a dream altogether. Yes, there is a state that you can be in that.
Um, when you are not living in any dream.
It is really if you are just completely conscious on the plane of the self.
For example. On the Atmic plane.
There is no dream there. There is a state of pure being.
The difficulty is then is things in this world don't matter very much.
And they really, they fall away.
And that is when traditionally you have the choice either to stay in that plane of pure existence
Or to take the Boddhisattva route and come back into this world into the dream that is being played out.
Whichever dream you choose, you come into.
For the help of created beings who are still caught in that dream.
To help, for the sake of the world. I think at the moment the world is caught in a very self, in a very destructive dream.
And I don't know how much that dream is of its own making.
So, yes, there does come a time on the path that you are completely free from this dream.
And I think that's what people mean when they say like you wake up.
I remember years and years ago I had a dream in which a voice told me
Only Saints and animals are realists.
And when I told that to Mrs. Tweedie she added 'Yes and little children.
They live in the eternal present. There is no past. There is no future.
There is no time. It is just the eternal moment.
And I think without past and future you can't have a dream.
Every moment just is.
I was actually given that state for six months when I was 23.
I went through kind of a breakdown and I was really in that state for six months. There was no time.
And it was kind of a state of bliss. And there was no mind so I didn't think of anything.
If you imagine living without any mind. Just awareness.
Um. But. And there are beings, saints, realized people who choose to remain in that state.
And then there is the other current if you like that says once you've reached that state
then you come back into this dream to help those who are still caught up in the illusions.
To say there is you know, you know the story of Plato's cave.
When Plato describes humanity as sitting in this cave chained in rows watching the screen on which images were being played.
And betting on which image was going to do what.
And then there was one of the guys sitting in these rows who said 'Hmm, there must be something more to life
than just betting on these images on the screen."
So he turned around and he saw there was a light behind (Peter can probably say it better)
And he saw where the images were being played from and he decided to free himself from these chains.
And then he found, he went back, and he found it was in a cave.
And he went out of the cave. And first he saw the sunlight reflected on the water.
Because it was so bright outside that he couldn't see after being always in this cave.
And then he went out and discovered there was a whole world out there.
And then he thought well you know there are all these guys stuck in this cave, betting on these images
going back and forth.
I really should go and tell them. There's a whole world out here, you know.
So he went back into the cave and the first problem he had was that if you've been out in the sunlight
and you go back into the cave, you can't see very well.
Because it's a little bit dim in there.
And then he went back and he tried to tell these people that there's a whole world out there.
And they wouldn't have any of it.
They all say but you know you missed because you missed that image doing this and betting on this.
And you're going to...you know?
So they said "You're crazy. This is what matters."
I mean how many people actually seriously think in our culture that making money is going to make them happy.
I mean, you know? How many people play the lottery?
If they looked at the statistics, they would first of all, you're not going to win the lottery.
But even if you are, if you looked at all the people who won the lottery, did they become tremendously happy?
No. But does that stop people playing the lottery?
Or going to Vegas? No.
So, you know, that is a complete dream.
It doesn't even have any logical sense.
But you can't tell people that it doesn't matter.
So you either give up entirely and go and sit in your cave in meditation.
And stay in a state of bliss. Sit in your suburban house. It doesn't matter.
Just smile benignly at everybody who passes by.
Or you know, you take the rather silly job of trying to tell people that it's all an illusion.
But you know, I am by nature an old renunciate so I've kind of done the renunciation bit.
And, you know, you come back into life and try to see what it's all about.
And then what fascinated me in the last few years is I see there is another dream coming into existence.
This is actually a much more beneficial dream.
That's why I like this line from Shakespeare's Winter's Tale "Thou camest upon things dying and eye upon things to be born."
And I do see there is another dream coming into existence that's actually a dream that reflects the oneness
of life and the relationship between the creation and the creator.
And it's not based upon the American dream of getting stuff.
And I think looking at this dream you can't tell people that getting money isn't going to make them happy.
They're never going to believe that.
So I would rather put my attention into helping this new dream come into being.
And seeing how that might work.
And I find it quite a fascination dream. Is it reality with a capital "R"? No.
No. But it's a dream that reflects reality more closely than this present culture which I think has created an aberration.
I really don't think it was meant to be like this.
I've become more and more convinced that a certain patriarchal power drive got out of hand.
And nobody got around to stop them.
So I would rather give my attention to this dream that is being born.
It is a very beautiful dream. It's not reality. No. But it is, it reflects reality much more closely.
The Sufis talk about the secret of the word Kun, to be. It embraces the mystery of creation.
And that's what interests me. Thank you.
I don't understand the future. You know, this magic, this change, the dream, the cataclysm.
Is it monetary? Is it weather?
All levels. It will have to be on all levels because it is one.
It will have to be. Yeah, that's one of the things people don't realize it's not in a nice little safe place.
It's on all levels.
So we, our safety inward is connected with the energy of the earth.
What?
Our safety...
Safety?
[Laughter] You're hoping to be safe.
No, but if there is any hope for our spirit it is that we are with the spirit...
Oh, it's tremendous for the spirit. As mystics we are kind of. We are used to disaster being a great opportunity.
So, but. Yeah, there's no, I wouldn't look for safety.
I think you'll miss the fun if you're after safety.
My spiritual safety is inside. That's all I have.
One doesn't know. Maybe. Maybe I don't know. I don't think one should condition oneself, you see.
I think it has to do with the response to the moment.
Maybe, maybe you'll find it. Who knows. Maybe you'll find what reassures you at that moment is a relationship you happen to have.
Maybe it is a garden that you've been growing.
I don't know. I just know it is going to be a lot of fun.
[Mild laughter] No seriously. Because this energy that is coming alive has to do with creation.
And one thing creation is, is not boring.
At the moment your life gets boring, you've cut yourself off from the creative spirit.
And creation is a lot of fun because it, you know we've created this serious well-intentioned God.
I don't know where he came from.
But my own experience is God is certainly not a serious, well-intentioned person.
And he is a trickster. He is full of laughter and love and crazy ideas.
I mean creation is...I always say you go into a compost heap or you go to Manhattan.
Or. And it's crazy. Who could have thought up something like that?
But this is all part of his dance of revelation, part of the way he hides and reveals himself.
And it is crazy. It is fun. It is alive. It is dynamic. It is full of laughter and tears like any love affair.
And it's gonna happen differently. You know you can't have a love affair if you think you know what's going to happen.
Forget it. Go and read a romance novel.
If you have a love affair. And life is a love affair, you've got to be prepared for the unexpected.
And you can't even be prepared for the unexpected. All you can do is, you know, I don't know what you do. Hope for the best?
Or the worst? You give it a go.
You know. You've got this life. You've go this spin of the dice. You roll it. You take your chance.
This is why, you know, Sufis are gamblers. Well gamble everything.
And if you lose, maybe you've won. And if you won, maybe you lost.
What is success anyway?
You don't know what your life is about. Maybe you'll know about it after you die.
Maybe you know about it before you die. Maybe that last 5 minutes, you'll say "Ah, now I get it."
And then it's great. Then the whole life is fulfilled.
You don't know. But why not, you know, be there at the roulette wheel of life?
Be there where the game is taking place rather than in some sort of side room?
The only thing I can say. Yeah, you're going to get swindled because he is the greatest trickster.
And lead us not into temptation. Of course he leads us into temptation.
He gears temptations for each of us. We each have our own individual temptations.
And some are a little bit nicer than others.
But. And this new, whatever is happening it is going to be fun.
I remember that really surprised me because I was, I'm a very traditional, slightly dull mystic.
And you know I did all those years of work and then in the year 2000
I remember because it was in the Spring, in February of the year 2000, it was all taken away.
All of the serious well-intentioned, you know focusing on the path, mystical spirituality.
It was all taken away. And somebody said "It's actually all a big joke."
"That doesn't matter anymore. Now we're going to have fun.
And suddenly this energy came through and it was so...it was the energy of oneness.
Because in that energy, everything was one, everything was completely alive.
And it was an enormous amount of fun.
And that's why I always say you can't do this work if you don't have a sense of humor.
Forget it. Go and do good intentioned work and go to a good intentioned heaven.
And there are good intentioned heavens for the slightly pious, slightly boring people.
[Laughter] But creation is not pious. It is not boring. And I don't even know if it's well intentioned.
Because it's, but it certainly is fun.
When life comes into being. You know it is like a child learning to talk.
Willing to throw things around the table. Willing to , you know. It's fun. It's crazy. It's ridiculous.
His creation. And we have. All I'm saying is there is a unique opportunity because normally the rules are set.
If you'd been born 200 years ago, you know if your father was a carpenter and you were a guy, you were a carpenter.
If you were a woman, you stayed at home and had kids.
The rules were set. There was not much flexibillity. Yes, a few people got out and changed things. But not much.
You know. And the rules are not set.
Nobody knows how it's going to be.
And this is. There are definite reasons because the rules haven't been written yet.
Because it's a new chapter in the book of life.
And it's not a chapter that's built upon the past.
It's a chapter that's coming into existence.
That is coming down through the planes of existence. It has not yet reached the forms.
So it is very fluid. And it's very dynamic. And it's completely alive.
And it's, and it can change.
It hasn't been written how it's going to be. And you can be part of it.
Or you can sit on the sidelines and you know save for your pension.
Or if you're really retired, enjoy your pension.
Or you can be part of this extraordinary, creative explosion, orgasmic explosion because it's all of creation.
It's orgasmic. It's explosion of life.
Try. And life is experimental. That's the one thing we've learned from this, um Darwin. What's this called?
Evolution? That whole Darwinian thing of evolution of the fittest or whatever. Right?
Is this idea of experimentation. That life experiments. And it tries this and it tries that.
And some things work. And some things don't.
And it's not all written in the big book called The Future of Life.
It's experimental. And maybe we can be part of an experiment that works.
If it's really wild and wacky enough.
We don't know.

Oneness and the World Soul: QUESTIONS with Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

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