Transcript for Interview with Enrique Peñalosa

The essence of the conflict today, really

is cars and people

That is the essence of the whole discussion

We can have a city that is very friendly to cars

Or a city that is very friendly to people

We cannot have both

The Open Planning Project presents...

a conversation with Enrique Peñalosa

I'm here today with Enrique Peñalosa

the former Mayor of Bogotá Colombia

Who is one of the...

...leading figure in the world

in terms of actually accomplishing changes on the ground

that have made life better for pedestrians

I mean, in many different ways in the city

but he... his policies were really...

...revolutionary

in terms of rethinking the way

you know, transportation works and its relation to the city

You gave a talk this morning, and...

...one of the things you said that was interesting

was this idea, when you say you talk about transportation

the first thing you have to do is...

...is decide what you want

- Before we know what the idea of transport is

we have to know what kind of a city we want

but in order to know what kind of a city we want

we have to know how do we want to live, really

because a city

is really only a means to a way of life

The list of the least a democratic society should have is

public pedestrian space of great quality

sidewalks, pedestrian streets, plazas

sports facilities, parks

and public transports or public libraries

could be considered as public space as well

- So, how did you decide for yourself?

- We can see what cities have worth, in the world

We have had city for five thousand years

We have had cars for only about eight years

or so, in significant amounts

So, for five thousand years

all streets were for people

Were pedestrians streets

A child could walk ten blocks

without any fear of being killed

We should have cities

with very large network

of pedestrian only streets

Not the quaint, little pedestrian street

downtown here and there, but

hundreds of kilometers of pedestrians streets

where people could go ride bicycles,

jog, just sit and read a newspaper in a bench

without having cars going in front

look at people walking by

What we find more and more is that a good city

is the one city where you want to be out

and a city that is good for the most vulnerable citizens

I would say a city where you have

many people in the street who are handicapped

who are old people

who are children, children by themselves

- Could you talk a little bit about your experience

as a politician in going through the process

of implementing some of these changes?

- What we try to do

is to restrict car use

to create public transport

to do bicycle ways

and to create public space

We took the road network

and created a bus system

that is called bus rapid transit

You give exclusive lanes to the buses

Our system has

a velocity and a capacity, that is very similar

to the best subways in the world

Clearly this is possible because

we give priority to public transport

in the use of road space

So public good prevails over private transport

We created a very large bicycle network

A protected bicycle path network

A protected bicycle path is a symbol

that a citizen on a $30 bicycle

is equally important as one

on a $30000 car

- Your experience in Bogota was that

bicycling went from

I mean, I think as fringe activity

to carrying a real fraction of the transport

- When we started

bycicle was almost insignificant

Zero

Or 0.2% of the people in Bogota

used to bicycle

Now

nearly 5% of the people

only after 6 years or so

We get almost 400000 people

bycicle everyday

- After you put in these changes

and I should state that these are

for cities around the world

among the most significant changes

in terms of moving away from cars

and towards focus on pedestrians

and bicycles and public transit

Practically of any city I can think of

In a short period of time

Maybe you can talk a little bit about

what the public's mind set was beforehand

and then afterwards

- There is always

resistance to change

per say

and also

all of these policies

which have social content

have conflicts between

those who own cars

whose use we are going to restrict

and those who don't

People opposed very much, for example

we had to get rid of tens of thousands

of parking bays

which have been illegally

carved out where there should be sidewalks

so we took tens of thousands of parking bays away

and we made big sidewalks

and there was a huge outrage from shop owners

but then afterwards they realized

how much life had improved

how the real estate prices had gone up

how crime had gone down

how they were selling more

- After you left

were these policies continued by your successors?

The mayors that have come afterwards

have continued

and it would be impossible

really, for someone to reverse

these policies

and on the contrary

I think we will have to

make them even more radical

our dream is to totally ban

car use during peak hours

everyday

In many countries

they have car free days

where they close off a few streets to cars

during a day

but we close the whole 7 million habitants city to cars

during one week day

a thursday

And this again

is not only an experiment

in environmental transport

but this an exercise in social integration

because we get upper income people

and lower income people

everybody going out to find public transport

we allow taxis to operate that day

but most people use buses or ride bicycles

We show ourselves

that it's possible to organize the city

without private cars

- In addition to being mayor of Bogota

you've also been a visiting scholar

in NYU

and you've lived in New York

so you have an apartment here in New York

- Yes, I love New York

- And I guess, we were just walking down the street before

and you were talking about

some of the things that you would like to see

and that you think make a lot of sense to do here

and it would be great to get some of your ideas on that

- I think what changes cities

are things that are different

I would almost say crazy

New York for example

could turn all Broadway

into a pedestrian street

all the way

from the bridge to the tip on Manhattan

And if you don't to turn the whole Broadway

into a pedestrian street

do take half of Broadway

into a very large, giant sidewalk

with bicycle ways

And at least on Sundays

it could be closed up completely

so to allow people to access Central Park

from different areas of Manhattan for example

I think there are some wonderful things

that have been done recently lately

The bike way around...

...the island

The Hudson River park

This is wonderful, but

here in Manhattan for example

there could be at least a few

cross town bicycle ways

We cannot continue to

decieve ourselves thinking

that to paint a little line on the road

is a bike way

A bicycle way which is not safe

for an 8 year old

is not a bicycle way

Hopefully to do a whole network

of very well protected

physically protected bicycle ways

all across Manhattan

And only a few hundred cars

which are now parked

would be affected

by these measures, which is nothing

next to the millions that would bennefict from this

The 42nd street project

where they turned 42nd street into a pedestrian street

from East River to the Hudson River

put in a TRAM

It would be fantastic!

Manhattan has all the qualities

for a successful pedestrian and bicycle street

because Manhattan is dense

is very dense

distances are relatively very short

so it's perfect for walking or for bicycling

and is very flat

so there are no significant hills

So, these are just some of the projects

which could be implemented in Manhattan

Mathematically it is totally impossible

to solve the transportation problems of a city

using cars

because cars simply don't fit

it's impossible

if everybody wants to move by car

Time lost in traffic jams is increasing every year

There is a conflict

between a city that is frienldy to cars

and a city that is friendly to people

because if you have very wide streets

where cars go very fast

they become obstacles to people

they are menacing

they are threatening

The United States is a fantastic society

it's an example to the world

in so many aspects

as a part in its culture

the movies, the music

the universities, the libraries

but not everything is

ideal

and one of those problems is this

suburban highway culture

I believe New York could be

even better

If we would take a lot of space away from parked cars

and give it to pedestrians, for example or to bicycles

The importance of public pedestrian space

is obvious in how every sidewalk is clogged

The mayor of Manhattan and the city council members

would be surprised how they may

receive much more political beneficts

from these measures

which are relatively cost free

We underestimate the power of dreams

The most difficult thing is to dream

and to create a collective dream

or a shared vision

I think it's time to take the great risks

and to do something new

to do the new New York